Speaker 1: 0:04

Good morning, how are you?

Speaker 2: 0:20

I am fabulous and yourself Good.

Speaker 1: 0:23

Let me put my camera on. I don't know what's going on there. I'm just turning off the AI thing. I hate that. It's like go away.

Speaker 2: 0:36

If you want a transcript, you can use it.

Speaker 1: 0:39

Well, I get a transcript when I upload it to Buzzsprout.

Speaker 2: 0:44

Buzzsprout does an automatic transcript, does it? Yeah, cool.

Speaker 1: 0:47

Yeah, yeah, it's good, Like it's. Yeah, I think it's about I don't know 40 bucks a month, but the functionality you get is really good.

Speaker 2: 0:56

Cool.

Speaker 1: 0:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 0:58

And you have a background.

Speaker 1: 1:00

I do, I do and it is only audio. You look fantastic. No, no, no.

Speaker 2: 1:05

No, I'm just, you know the fudge Graham crackers. That's all. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Found out the other day and I thought yep, that's coming back up. Yeah, yeah, no, that's Put the photo in Denver, I think, but anyway yes.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Oh cool, all righty, let me just all right, let me just get myself organized.

Speaker 2: 1:22

Oh boy. While you're, while you're setting up, I've listened to you know probably most of the podcast. I heard the first one, yeah, and then, for some stupid reason, it automatically went into the most recent one, which was, I think, number 12, because Spotify plays them in reverse order. Oh, no, no, no, actually I heart radio, which is what I was using for the podcast. Yeah, so I played one.

Speaker 1: 1:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:53

I chose that deliberately and then it automatically went to 12 and then 11, and then to 10 and to nine and to eight, and to seven and six. So I've heard the ones with Melon from Melissa.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Melissa.

Speaker 2: 2:06

Yeah, melissa, kevin, john and Thomas Thomas. Yes, plus the ones that you've been doing on. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:18

And I think I think I'm sort of getting to it. I think I want to record one more, about two more actually, just with me, with of me doing solo with about contests and and then networking events and things like that, and I think that'll take me up to just about before the division contest and then I thought I would do a wrap up from the contest afterwards and then probably just revert to guests and and like I feel like I've covered about as much as the guts of Toastmasters for newbies as I want to at this point. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Yep, I understand that's Yep.

Speaker 1: 3:01

And I like, I like talking to people and hearing their Toastmasters stories. So I want to keep doing more of that and, just you know, getting experience doing that, because it's really interesting talking to Toastmasters on on on this, because Toastmasters pause so sometimes you never quite know if they're finished speaking or if they're pausing.

Speaker 2: 3:19

Yep, yep. Yes, I know how that works.

Speaker 1: 3:25

It's some, yeah, but um, okay, so just confirming you're a member of the seven clubs. Yeah, like, because.

Speaker 2: 3:33

Yeah, six at the moment.

Speaker 1: 3:34

Oh, six, okay, Cool Six, and one of them is actually folding in four weeks.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Oh yeah, so we're not renewing. None of us are renewing this, this cycle, but yeah, six clubs, three of them online only and three in district 69. Of those, one is an advanced club, leading edge One is a straight community club, chris, and one is a hybrid community club, which is Forex. Okay, oh cool, all right. Well, yeah, we can?

Speaker 1: 4:05

um, I'd be interesting to hear about the online. I mean about the online, the online community club. I'd be interesting to hear about the online. I mean about any of it. You know depending but I think the online aspect, cause we, we talk a lot about you know the other episodes have talked about the in club meetings and things like that. So, yeah, I think I think some of that online experience but also then you know how how it's it's morphed into opportunities to speak on the ships and which is awesome.

Speaker 2: 4:33

Yeah, I was going to talk to you. You were talking to Kevin about. You know, professional speaker and that's what I consider, what I do.

Speaker 1: 4:40

Yeah, the thing is, I don't know whether I mentioned, but I've.

Speaker 2: 4:43

I've won table topics twice Yep and evaluation once at district level.

Speaker 1: 4:50

Not in this district, but yeah, no, that's fine, cool, alrighty. Yeah, we can um. All right, happy to um. As I said, like I have the questions as a guide, as a guide post, then the car. You hear the how the conversations go. They like end up all over the place, so, which is great.

Speaker 2: 5:10

Mike's working. Okay, sounding good at your end.

Speaker 1: 5:12

Yes, it is.

Speaker 2: 5:13

Yes, it is.

Speaker 1: 5:16

And now I have to make sure I sound good. What sort of a mic do you use?

Speaker 2: 5:21

This one's the the road um uh road. Nt. Uh podcast or NT.

Speaker 1: 5:28

Oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 5:29

Exactly that one.

Speaker 1: 5:31

I think that's. I think Josh recommended it. I'm buying it. Yeah, I think broke off oh no, yeah, they're a bit wonky, aren't they? They are.

Speaker 2: 5:42

And when they fall on the floor. If you do it twice, once you get away with a chip, second time it goes. No, no, get stuffed.

Speaker 1: 5:47

Yeah, yeah it's. Um no, because the way they sit, like a number of times, yeah it's.

Speaker 2: 5:55

It is a bit confusing.

Speaker 1: 5:56

Well, anyway, Anyway, all right. Well, look, thank you. I think what I'll do is just a bit of an introduction and then um, and then then launch into the questions. Let me just have a drink. Oh, I've made the uh point of not having yoga for breakfast before I do interviews. I did that once and it was just like claggy.

Speaker 2: 6:19

Like, why don't?

Speaker 1: 6:19

I do that.

Speaker 2: 6:21

Yes.

Speaker 1: 6:22

All right, okay, so we're recording. That's, that's good. Um, all right, so I'm just going to note the time, just so I can um yeah, yes.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Yeah, um, and yeah, no sort of there's. There's no real time limits, it just sort of where, where, where they go. So, um, um, all right, let me just do this. Okay, three, two, one. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 15 of the talkative toast master podcast. Today I'm joined by Graham cans, one of the most accomplished and committed toast masters I think I've ever met. He's been in and out of toast masters for the last 40 years, is currently a member of six yes, six toast masters clubs and has powered his way through every one of the 11 educational pathways, some more than once. Graham, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: 7:24

Thank you, thanks, melody. I think committed is probably what I should be rather than what I am.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Yes, you've definitely embraced the toast masters organization and everything it has to offer. Do you perhaps want to start by telling us why you decided to join toast masters all those years ago?

Speaker 2: 7:44

I was, and this goes back 40 years. I was a mid ranking DJ on a mid ranking radio station in a mid ranking town. I was always going to be just average and I could talk to 50,000 people at a time and it didn't worry me. But if you stuck 50 of those 50,000 physically in front of me, my tongue would take on all the characteristics of a killer whales fluke. It would sit in my mouth and I was terrible. And one of my colleagues said Graham, you're never going to be able to be better than you are if you don't learn to deal with people physically in public. And I said, yeah, but how do I do that? He said funny, you should mention that I'm a member of a club called toast masters. And I said, oh, that sounds interesting. Bob Kirschner is a friend of mine. He's also a member of the same club and he works at the same place you do. And so in the end I went to this toast masters club not knowing what to expect. And well, the rest is history.

Speaker 1: 8:54

Wow Okay.

Speaker 2: 8:56

I might mention, by the way, I mentioned Bob Kirschner there. Bob, I still consider to be a mentor 40 years later. He was, a few years ago, the district director. That is, the grand putter bar, if you like, of all of the clubs in more than New South Wales, basically from the border down to the, the, the, the harbor, yeah, and despite being the district director which is, you know, a fairly time consuming job for a volunteer job he still looks out for me, offers me assistance and is perfectly happy to take my phone calls and my emails at any time. And I got to tell you that is, you know, that's to be honest. It's one of the reasons why I'm still in toast masters. I left for a while because life got in the way, but one of the reasons that I'm still in toast masters is because of mentoring by people like Bob and the mentoring that I hope I can provide to newer members.

Speaker 1: 9:55

Oh, wow, that's amazing. I mean, what an amazing relationship to foster and to keep it going for all that time.

Speaker 2: 10:04

It's. We've talked about people who have been in toast. You've talked on this podcast about people who've been toast masters on and off for quite a while, and I like to tell new members that almost everybody joins toast masters because they want to learn how to speak. They stay in toast masters because they want to learn how to lead.

Speaker 1: 10:24

Yeah, it's. It's a interesting distinction there and and until you get into a club and you, you learn what you learn and you go through the process, you don't know and you don't know where it's going to take you either. And and I'm sure we'll delve into where toast masters has taken you, you know through through the course of our discussion. But, yeah, I love the story about the mentoring. I'm doing a episode about mentoring in in a couple of weeks and it is such a fundamental part of the organization and in in the corporate land or corporate world is. You don't often get that type of commitment from mentors. I mean, sometimes you do if you're lucky. But yeah, to have someone overseeing you and having an interest in you is amazing. That's awesome. And so you mentioned leadership and and and you know those personal relationships as one of the reasons you stay in toast masters. But what do you most enjoy about being a member now?

Speaker 2: 11:29

I mentioned that I joined toast masters nearly 40 years ago. I was a member for seven years or thereabouts, and then life got in the way I was, my career was at that point where I simply couldn't dedicate the time that I needed to dedicate to toast masters, so I drifted away from the organization. About eight years ago eight, nine years ago I got to semi retirement and decided I needed to re skill. If you like, I joined at that stage two clubs. One and you've spoken to a member of that club, john Curry. That was the Sunnybank Club. Now, that's a club that had three, four hundred years worth of experience in it. There were some people there who have been members forever, who have reached the highest levels in public speaking, and so I joined that club so that I could learn from them.

Speaker 2: 12:25

And I joined a second club at exactly the same time so that I could put the skills that I was learning in Sunnybank into crest, because crest is a community club. It is a a club. That's like. All clubs had its ups and downs in terms of membership, but crest, whilst it has some members of some experience, it always has a number of absolutely brand new toast masters, many of whom don't have English as a first language, so I really enjoyed the process of being able to be the mentor, the coach, the guide for those new members At the same time as I was getting from Sunnybank the kick in the bum that I needed. Now, in the end, I got involved with an advanced club, because that's where I get the kick in the bum and you and I are actually both members of that same club, leading Edge, and the thing about Leading Edge is that, being an advanced club, you don't have to be atlas holding up the club all the time, which can get a bit draining in a community club.

Speaker 2: 13:40

I learned something every single meeting and that's why I keep turning up week after well, fortnight after fortnight in the case of that club, week after week in the case of some other clubs.

Speaker 1: 13:51

Yeah, it's, it is, I think. So there's so much opportunity to keep expanding out of your comfort zone and I think that's the nature of toast masters people who really get into it and who say, ok, I'm just going to keep challenging myself until I keep put punching through every fear or every challenge I might have and there is no limit to you know how. Again, there's really no limit in toast masters about how to keep expanding your comfort zone. So, whether it's moving to those advanced clubs and relaying the information back to your own community clubs, or taking on district roles or leadership roles, is the possibilities are really endless and it's really up to, I think, each member what they make of it and and take from it.

Speaker 2: 14:45

I mentioned that I'm a member of six clubs. Yes, I mentioned that I'm a member of six clubs. The three clubs in District 69, that's our home district here in Queensland, australia. There's the advanced club that we were just speaking at. Yeah, there's Crest, which is my community club, if you like, and it is just a plain ordinary community club, as in there are members from a variety of walks of life. We once a fortnight at night for just under two hours. The third club that I'm a member of here in District 69 is a lunchtime club. We are for an hour and everything has to be squeezed into 55 minutes effectively, and it has been a hybrid club since before COVID.

Speaker 2: 15:32

We actually moved in. We moved into hybrid because we had a couple of members who were overseas or moving overseas and we wanted to keep them as members, and so we started running as a hybrid club. The advantage to that was that when the pandemic hit, we were the experts, if you like.

Speaker 1: 15:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 15:52

I have to. I couldn't tell you the number of clubs and competitions and area and division competitions and things that I have been involved in where I've ended up doing the the zoom master role, but I mentioned this not to blow my own trumpet but to say that I learned some skills in that club in Forex, which is my lunchtime club, of which I'm president and Sergeant Ram, so I'm quite proud. It's so busy but I learned so many skills in that. About running hybrid meetings because hybrid meeting, where you have some people in the room and some people online, different experience to a face to face meeting and a different experience to an online meeting.

Speaker 1: 16:35

Yes.

Speaker 2: 16:36

I've learned skills about how to manage those and, as you say, there is always something new to learn, and that's what I love.

Speaker 1: 16:44

Yeah, and the that hybrid approach. I mean, that's how so many of us actually do work these days, whether it's teams in other countries. Then you've got people in a meeting room.

Speaker 1: 16:57

And that's becoming a way of life. So I think to be able to work out how to do it and do it well and, as you say, become a zoom master and facilitate people in the physical space and online and make everyone feel included is is quite the skill and I believe they are offering. Toastmasters will be introducing new pathways or a little mini explorations around online in that very scenario, I think, because we could all probably improve on it.

Speaker 2: 17:28

Yeah, look, moving from hybrid to the specifically online space, because you're right, many of us work in an environment where there will be some of us in a meeting room and one or two other members of our team who are coming in on teams or Zoom or Skype or whatever. But for many others particularly those who work from home or work from home on a regular basis, you know, two or three days a week or whatever the online meeting is becoming the standard. Three of my clubs are online. Only One of those is a specialty club in the sense that it's called online presenters, because that's what we do. We learn how to use the online environment effectively, how to run webinars so that you actually keep the attention of people who are on the other side, because we've all been in Zoom meetings where you know that somebody is looking down at their phone and working out what they're going to do for dinner tonight and etc. That's if they even leave their camera on. Often you'll be sitting there and there'll just be the Brady Bunch screen there and half of the screens will be blank and you've got no idea whether they're actually taking any attention. So one of the things that online presenters does is teaches us how to use the environment effectively as communicators.

Speaker 2: 18:57

I have a couple of other clubs that could only work online. One is made up entirely of disc jockeys and masters of ceremony. It is people who run DJs and radio presenters, like I was, those who are wedding celebrants or life event celebrants, and so half of our membership is in Australia. The other half are spread across the United States. Now that's a club that simply could not function because there's just not enough DJs in any single place. Have a club, and one is a storytelling club, and that's a once fortnight club. We only meet for an hour and a half every two weeks, but everything that we do is about storytelling and, again, that's a specialty that I find works well online.

Speaker 1: 19:42

Yeah, and the fact that you can find niches of people around the world in the Toastmasters community that have a similar interest and then create clubs and entire meetings and entire experiences around that is again really testament to the organization and how it brings together like minded people. And also really how Toastmasters can talk about anything if put a few people with a like minded interests and off they go and suddenly meeting fortnightly about it. How cool With the DJ club. What are they speeches about? That environment or challenges that you have? What's that? How does that work?

Speaker 2: 20:27

Well, it depends on the member and it depends on the vibe of the particular meeting, but quite often, for example, there will be a member who will be giving a presentation on how to use a specific type of DJ software. Or we've had a meeting where somebody demonstrated the best setup of the PA system for a small room, a medium room and a large room, and that was fascinating because it's not an area that I've ever had to deal with, because, as a radio DJ, I just sat there with a microphone in front of me and I let the technicians deal with how to send the stuff out. But it was really interesting. In others they've been, and this is something that translates not just to DJs and MCs.

Speaker 2: 21:13

But there was a speech I saw about how to write somebody's story rather than writing your own story, because we learn in Toastmasters how to write our own story. That's what the icebreaker speech is about. But learning how to write somebody else's story to get their story across to a group, that's something that celebrants do, for example, all the time as part of their wedding or funeral or whatever. But it's also something that wedding DJs often do. They tell the stories before leading into the speeches. It's something that terrifies many of us having to tell somebody else's story. I don't know if you've ever had to deliver a eulogy.

Speaker 2: 22:00

I have it's one of the toughest speeches that you will ever have to prepare, but what you learn how to do it, it actually genuinely becomes lovely in the sharing of love, and so that's one of the things that we do in DJ and MC. But the interesting thing is that those skills, those stories, for example, are already included in Pathways. I think they're a level three elective.

Speaker 2: 22:35

There is a social speech that you're asked to give, and I got to say it was in the previous iteration of the Toastmasters education program, in what we call the legacy system, that I first came across how to write a eulogy, and I have to say when my mum died I was so glad that I had had the experience of that. So that's good, because you're under pressure then.

Speaker 1: 23:05

Yeah exactly Exactly. I haven't actually done that speech in the book, but I had previously delivered eulogies for grandparents and the like. And yeah, it's when you're trying to get information from other people and it's as much about your relationship with that person. And perhaps, as you've been talking, I'm thinking why do we often leave it till it's the person's gone to actually tell those stories? And the idea of life stories. I remember thinking about the idea of life stories while people were still alive a few years ago and you've just reminded me of that. And why don't we do more of that when people can actually hear it? Imagine if people whose story we're telling were there to be able to hear it and how much they meant to us. And I feel a bit inspired now to go on like all right, whose story?

Speaker 1: 24:04

do I want to write.

Speaker 2: 24:05

Here's a suggestion If you're thinking about joining Toastmasters, do it, learn how to do this stuff and prepare a family audio book of mum's story, dad's story, uncle Charlie's story. You know, uncle Charlie. You know Uncle Charlie's the one who we all have been here to do an audio book, or a podcast for that matter.

Speaker 2: 24:28

But something that can then be played at mum's 80th birthday, whatever. The thing about Toastmasters is that people join for a million reasons, but one of the most common reasons is because they have a life event coming up and they know it and they think I'm going to have to give a speech at my daughter's wedding. I'm terrified of this. Or I know that Jono and Mary are going to get married soon and Jono's going to ask me to be the best man and I don't want to give the best man speech because I am going to know Now is the time. Yes, do it.

Speaker 1: 25:07

Yes, prepare in advance, not six weeks leading up to the event, for sure. And the entirely online meetings. How do you find that in terms of? Because obviously you have a lot of experience delivering in front of people and that's often where the fear is actually that physically standing up in front of a room full of people looking at you and what about the online experience? Do you think that it can help to allay that fear? If an online club is the only option for someone, what would you say about that experience versus being in person?

Speaker 2: 25:51

There are different challenges to delivering online, but it is actually a less scary experience. Even if you have 40 people in your Zoom meeting and you've got one of those screens where you have what I said eight rows by five people, anyway, you've got the big screen full of people it's still less scary than having 15 of those people physically there in front of you. Yeah, it is actually an easier delivery experience and scary. But, as I say, there are different challenges and, quite frankly, it's those different challenges that we're most likely to use in the workplace Because, whether we like it or not, chances are going forward. It's not going away. We may be out of the pandemic, we may not face the same issues, but we're never all going back to just face to face, if only because it costs too much to fly people in from outer offices to head office to hold your meeting.

Speaker 2: 27:06

So telephone meetings were terrible. We all know that. Yeah, they were just terrible. But at least now with the online meetings where we can see the people that we're talking to, then we learn those skills. I know that you've spoken about the electives that come up in Toastmasters, particularly in in Level 3 and 4 of most parts, there are elective projects, and those elective projects include using visual display material or that sort of thing. Learning how to use that material in an online environment is a skill that is just going to pay off so many times in your career, because if you can show your audience rather than just tell your colleagues what's going on, it's much more effective.

Speaker 1: 27:58

Yeah, for sure, and I think in corporate land, the death by PowerPoint is even what you put in the PowerPoint and how to keep that engaging, let alone how to engage in that hybrid environment. So I agree, I think it's definitely a skill that even the most accomplished presenters in the physical world or online need to be able to work out how to combine those realms, because that, as you say is, it's not going away. No, and so what have been some of the most valuable skills that you've learnt during your time as a member? Obviously, lots of experiences, but, yeah, what would you say have been the valuable skills?

Speaker 2: 28:43

I'm retired now. I actually gave up full time work. Well, I gave up all work mostly a couple of years ago. These days, my wife and I travel as much as we can. We are the classic skins, that is, we're spending the kids inheritance now.

Speaker 2: 29:02

Go for it, we're looking the house, but we won't be anything else left by the time we're gone. Awesome, we're travelling as much as we can because we're loving it. One of the ways that I'm travelling is doing cruises. Now I know some people will go oh God, a cruise, God's waiting room. And sometimes it does feel a little that way. And cruises can be expensive. I mean, they are actually an incredibly cheap way of travelling when you put everything in, because all your meals are included, your accommodations included, your transport included, all that sort of stuff. But it still can be a bit expensive, unless you do what I do. If you've ever been on a cruise, you will know that on a sea day, everybody gets off and goes and does things at the island that they're at or the port that they're at or whatever. But on a sort of shore day sorry, On a sea day there's not much. I mean, there's only so much bingo and shuffleboard that you can play.

Speaker 1: 29:59

They're not, of course they're leading.

Speaker 2: 30:01

There are a lot of things you can do on a cruise.

Speaker 1: 30:03

Yes.

Speaker 2: 30:04

But one of the things that they do and not all cruise lines do this but one of the things that many cruise lines do is they have what they call enrichment lecturers. People could come on and talk for 45 minutes to an hour on something that will be of interest to passengers. I do those enrichment lectures. Now, the cruise lines don't pay me to do those lectures, I don't pay the cruise line to cruise, so it's a free cruise. I mean, it's not quite free because the cruise lines don't want to deal with individual randos. They deal with an agency and I do have to pay an agent a fee to get me the placements. They have a list of all the cruises that are coming up. They say here are the cruises, this is how many lectures are required and etc. This is the agency fee. Well, that agency fee normally works out to about $25 a day each for Shirley and I. Now I figure, if I can't eat $25 on a cruise ship, I'm just not trying.

Speaker 1: 31:02

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 31:04

We do a lot of cruising, for example.

Speaker 1: 31:05

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 31:06

You can enrichment lectures, and this could only happen because of Toastmasters.

Speaker 1: 31:13

But what a great way to combine travel and speaking and you get the time during the day to do what you would do on a cruise, and I love cruises. I've been on quite a few and have enjoyed those enrichment lectures because, as you say, there is only so much you can do on a cruise and on the sea days. And so how do you go about constructing those speeches? Do you tailor them to the places you're going, and how does that work?

Speaker 2: 31:45

Yeah, so we're in Brisbane, Australia, and the most common cruises out of Brisbane are either up and down the Queensland coast or out to a few islands in the South Pacific Nirmia, Lefou, Isle of Pines, Anyway, islands in Vanuatu and New Caledonia. On a typical cruise out of Brisbane, a seven-day cruise, there will be three shore days and then four sea days, so I will have to prepare four lectures, Given that we're going to be sailing out into the South Pacific. One of the lectures I might do, for example, would be the history of colonisation of the South Pacific, Not just colonisation by Europeans, but colonisation by the Melanesians, the Micronesians, the Polynesians and then the Europeans, how they interact with each other when it goes well and when it does not, and then so obviously part of that will be I talk about blackbirding, which is the euphemism that we have for the slave trade that took place in the South Pacific that many people know about. Let's get it over to Bill Jenkins the location of the South Pacific and the importance of military history to Australia with the South Pacific. I spent quite a bit of time talking about the military history of the South Pacific, Australia's involvement, the Americans' involvement. So I might do that lecture Warriors, Whalers, Mercenaries and Missionaries, you might call it, for example, and so I'll do that.

Speaker 2: 33:26

We're on cruise ships and if there is one thing that passengers on cruise ships are interested in, it is cruise ships. Yes, so I might do a lecture on the history of cruise ships. When the cruise industry began which might surprise you was only in the 1820s. I mean, I've been cruising before that, but as an industry, as it's starting in a single location, going to here and then here and then here and then here and then back, that was really only in the 1820s. The early cruise ships were essentially ocean liners. Then they discovered the changes that they had to make.

Speaker 2: 34:01

A modern cruise ship is much boxier. It's more out of aluminium rather than steel. The hulls are not designed to go carving through the Atlantic storms. They're actually more designed to float like a stable platform as you wander around the Caribbean or whatever. But yes, so I look at the first cruise ships through to the latest iterations. I mean the most recent one, the Icon, which launched in, I think, January, no, February 2024. No, January 2024. It has, at full occupancy, call it 8,000 passengers, 3,500 crew, that's 11,000 people. I've lived in smaller towns than that and I didn't like anybody in that town.

Speaker 2: 34:43

No, that's not true, yeah so we talk about the cruise industry. We talk about the logistics of running a cruise ship. For example, 20,000 eggs in a week, that's an awful lot of chook fruit.

Speaker 1: 34:58

And getting them all onto the ship and sourcing them.

Speaker 2: 35:02

Yeah, those are the sorts of lectures that I do. Or history, I have my own podcast, history Tarts, which is about the offbeat history bits. For example, did you know that Captain Cook might well have died because the sandwich islanders, now Hawaiians at first thought he was a God, then decided he wasn't a God, killed him and then wondered why he wasn't coming back? Right, fascinating story. Ok, christopher Columbus, mad as a cut snake, went to his death bed believing he had found a way through to India. But there was a conspiracy not to believe him, because if we had believed him, then it would have brought on the second coming of Christ and he would have had an honoured place at the right hand of God. So I tell all these stories about travellers.

Speaker 1: 35:48

We'll have to put the link to your podcast in the show notes because I want to go and listen to it. So we'll do that. But do the ships give you any guidelines about what you can and can't talk about, or do you have free reign, or how's that work?

Speaker 2: 36:05

In general terms. I will send a list of these are my suggestions. That's for as a as an enrichment lecturer. If I am a destination lecturer then I have to talk specifically about the destinations that we're going to cruise. That I did last year.

Speaker 2: 36:22

For example, we did a lecture on art galleries and museums of the ports that we were going to visit. They have people who are employed by the cruise line normally to talk about specifically where to go and what to see in the island destination that we're going to and they make lots of suggestions about why you should sign up for the cruise ship excursions. And that's fair and reasonable and I never discourage people from taking cruise ship excursions because there are lots of good things to be said for cruise ship excursions. There are some bad things but there are lots of good things as well. But they wanted me to talk specifically about the art galleries and museums and things like that, because it was just that sort of cruise and so I got to talk about some tiny little museums in New Mere, because everybody who goes to the South Pacific goes on New Mere boring ass.

Speaker 2: 37:21

No, there are some fascinating museums there. There's a World War II Museum. It's in a concert hut. It's a very rounded hut that they used to have. Well, the building is actually a conventional building, but it's built to look like a concert hut. I think the cost was the equivalent of $2 Australian, although if you are a veteran of any military, you just show your veterans card and they say, oh, go in there. I mean, they speak French, so they yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 37:50

It's not the world's biggest museum, but it was fascinating and so you know, I got a chance to talk to them about that. I know that sometimes they will want specific lectures to live at, and I'm not going to bite the hand that feeds me, I'm not going to say how Princess is a terrible company that doesn't pay its staff, and which isn't true, by the way, but you know. But also I also make the point at the beginning of my lectures, particularly the ones where I'm talking about the history of the cruise lines, that I was a journalist for 40 years and I'm not willing to throw that out. So if I, If there are things that need to be said, I say them. But also I cruise because we love cruising. So I'm hardly likely to be, you know, saying oh terrible.

Speaker 1: 38:38

I get it. Yeah it's. It's kind of holding that.

Speaker 2: 38:44

A round of answering your question, that yes, they will have some suggestions and certainly, if I were to deliver lectures that they didn't like, I wouldn't get invited back again. Yes and that hasn't happened, so I must be doing something okay.

Speaker 1: 38:57

Well, as they say, you know you're only as good as your last speech, right, yep, that's the callback. So, and how long have you been doing that?

Speaker 2: 39:05

Oh well, pretty COVID, I started doing them. There was a period there where there wasn't much work, I have to tell you, because there weren't any cruises, no but no. So probably started doing these about 2019, I guess so five years or so.

Speaker 1: 39:23

Okay, and in terms of that application process, how did you even get to that? You know stage of getting on a ship and finding an agent and getting on a ship.

Speaker 2: 39:37

I was a part-time academic, that is, I tutored and gave some lectures at University in journalism and, by the way, skill the tutoring and particularly the lecturing, which I got out of my Toastmasters experience. So I was doing these tutors, tutoring and lecturing at University. One of my fellow part-time academics suddenly disappeared this is pre-COVID days, as I mentioned, yeah and I didn't know where she'd gone. I just thought, oh well, you know people move on. I happened to go along to a freelance journalism conference because I wasn't working full-time at that stage. I was only working a couple of days a week. I was doing freelance journalism a couple more days a week, running a small voiceover business, doing all sorts of stuff just to keep body and soul together.

Speaker 2: 40:26

And I came across this former colleague at this freelance journalism conference and I said to her I haven't seen you at QUT for a while. I said, ah, that's because I've been too busy cruising. I said, oh, that's a lovely, how'd you manage that? And she said, oh, it's funny, you should mention that. And she told me about the agency and I thought, you know, this sounds like the sort of thing I could do, because we'd been, that is, my wife and I and my sister and her mother-in-law, and my other sister and her best friend. So me and five middle-aged women had done this cruise from the Caribbean. Well, from the Caribbean across to Venice, it was a 25-nighter.

Speaker 2: 41:09

I got to say 25 nights on a cruise ship is long enough. Thank you very much. There was a woman who was on, and the best thing I can say about her is that her lectures were only about 30 minutes.

Speaker 1: 41:22

Right Painful.

Speaker 2: 41:26

Yeah, it wasn't good. And I just leaned over to me at one stage and said you know you can do a much better job than this and I was like I don't know, but I got no idea how you get this sort of gig, and then it was just a few weeks later that my former colleague was at this conference.

Speaker 1: 41:44

Serendipity Meant to be. I love that and, yeah, what an opportunity and great that Toastmasters yeah, I guess that experience and I guess your history of being a journalist and being on radio and that storytelling gig just really, just really fits into all your skill sets and, I guess, interests as well. You wouldn't be doing it if you weren't interested in it. That's awesome. What a great way to travel. So what would you say to people out there who may be thinking about joining a Toastmasters club but are terrified of the thought of getting in front of actual people in a room or in an online meeting? What would you say to them?

Speaker 2: 42:33

I know you've told the story of the Jerry Seinfeld where he said people are more afraid of speaking than they are of dying. That's actually not true, by the way. I mean, yeah, if you give me the choice between giving the eulogy or being in the coffin, I know which I'm really going to want.

Speaker 1: 42:53

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 2: 42:54

I do know that it's scary, but I also know that, like everything, it can be overcome. I'm the big round mound of sound was my nickname for many years. When I lost a bit of weight it became the lean, mean sound machine. I love it. For my entire adult life I had a tendency to eat my way to largest, that is, I get larger and larger.

Speaker 2: 43:32

At one stage in one of my efforts to significantly lose weight basically when I got diagnosed with diabetes, I decided I was going to lose a lot of weight and I was going to walk and I was going to run. So I took up running and I was doing 5K runs every week actually two or three times a week and 5K was great fun. Somebody said you really should step up to a marathon. I said, yeah, you really should. Before I turn 51, I am going to run a marathon. The marathon that I chose was the Honolulu marathon. It's an easy marathon to run in the sense that there are 20,000 of you. Yeah, unlike Boston or New York or even the marathons in Australia most marathons this one doesn't have a cut off time, so long as you're willing to keep running. They're willing to keep going. I mean, they may reopen the roads and you've got to run along the footpath of the sidewalk as the American school, but they will still keep somebody out there. So I did the Honolulu marathon 42K.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Congratulations Wow.

Speaker 2: 44:43

The point that I'm making in to bring this back to Toastmasters is that I did not think I would be able to do it until I discovered a training program that would let me do it. Now, when I say I ran a marathon, I'm not running fast. In fact, there's a running coach called Jeff Galloway, who was the one who's the one who's most famous for promoting this. You run for a specified distance or time and then you do a recovery walk for a specified distance Run, walk, run, walk, run, walk.

Speaker 2: 45:17

Well, my run walk was I would run for six minutes. Well, let's be honest, I would jog for six minutes and the jog wouldn't be much faster than a walk, but it didn't matter, I was still jogging. I would jog for six minutes and then I would walk for one and jog for six, and walk for one, and jog for six and walk for one. Well, as the day went on, the six minutes started getting shorter and the one minute started getting longer. So in the end, it was a run for four, walk for three, run for four, walk for three. It took me six hours to do the marathon.

Speaker 1: 45:44

You got there, though. That's my point. You made it.

Speaker 2: 45:48

Yeah, it was three times Well, not quite three times the professional runners who did it in two hours, 15 or something. I did it in six hours and some on minutes, finished by training. I got there by repetition, by doing and doing and doing. So, to answer your question about somebody who's terrified of speaking, they don't want to do this. I'm never going to be able to give a speech. I'm never going to be able to be a public speaker. Yes, you can if you start small and undertake a structured training program.

Speaker 2: 46:26

In that marathon that I was talking about, there were probably 15 of the 20,000 runners were Japanese. It's just. There were plain loads of Japanese planes flying in from Tokyo to Honolulu for the marathon. It's just one of those things. It's many Japanese men and women see this as being their best opportunity. Now, a lot of those had done what I had done, done the training. There were also some who had a packet of Marbra shove into the sleeves of their t-shirt and who had obviously never run more than 5K in their lives and they looked it by the time they finished, if they did at all. But that's the point that I'm making is that there were $20,000, most of whom had undertaken some form of structured training, the thing about the Toastmasters experience, whether we're talking the legacy program or pathways, and I in fact go back even before. You mentioned in one of your earlier podcasts that your first manual, the old CLP competent leader program, yours had 10 speeches, mine had 15. I go back enough for that.

Speaker 1: 47:38

Right.

Speaker 2: 47:39

Whether we're talking the legacy program or the current pathways educational program, is a structured process. Every presentation that you give is designed to build on the skill set that you have gained from your previous presentation. Your icebreaker, of course, is to break the ice. But, as you mentioned in an earlier podcast, you normally don't give your icebreaker until you have done a role as timekeeper or as grimerian or one of the minor roles where you have to say something but not have to prepare a four to six or five to seven minute speech. But once you've done the icebreaker, the second speech that you do in all 11 parts, soon to be six parts the second speech that you do is writing a speech with purpose, where you actually start to think about how to structure a speech and what is the intention behind giving this presentation. When there's the body language or vocal variety speech, and many people will stand there in their early speeches with their hands gripping onto the lectern for grip death, as if it's going to fly away or you're going to pull on your face. And so you learn how to let go of the lectern, how to use gestures, how to use vocal variety, the next set of speeches you give a speech because you've delivered three by this stage and you give a speech on any subject you like, you get specifically evaluated on that and you're asked to deliver either the same speech or a different speech, specifically putting into play the evaluation that you have been given. And in every case it's building on the previous presentation and so it's a structured process.

Speaker 2: 49:32

I've been involved in a couple of other public speaking organisations, one of which is I think there's probably half a dozen clubs in England and maybe a couple of dozen in Australia. In those organisations you don't have the structured presentation skills. You will have what they call the critic, that is, the person in charge of the education program for the club. He will just say Graham, I want you to give a three to five minute speech next week on Cow's Milk and that's it. That's the only advice that you could give him. You get told what you're going to speak on, you get told how long you're going to speak, but you're not told I want you to focus on, or whatever. And look, for many people that's a perfectly valid way of learning. I like the structure of the.

Speaker 2: 50:26

Toastmasters experience.

Speaker 1: 50:27

Yes, yeah, I think the structure and the flexibility there is flexibility in the structure to be very creative, and it never fails to amaze me how creative people can be, all doing the same types of speeches and working through the same pathways. I think you mentioned you're doing one of your current pathways as an entirely impromptu option, so how's that working out for you?

Speaker 2: 50:51

It's challenging. I have no idea what the title or topic of my speech is going to be until the beginning of the meeting at which the Toastmasters says Graham, today you're the first to speak. Your topic is 5G gives you cancer, which in fact was one that I got the other day. Now I know what the project that I'm doing is. In the case of that particular speech, I was talking about my communication style, that is, I've examined how I communicate. Am I a hectoring, do I, or am I a laissez-faire? You know chatter, whatever it is. I've looked at my communication style and obviously, given that I have done a multiple paths, I have a fair idea of my communication style.

Speaker 2: 51:44

So I had to do a speech based on my communication style, but I had no idea what the topic was going to be until the Toastmaster told me that my topic was does 5G give you cancer?

Speaker 2: 51:58

I was able to turn that particular presentation because it was in prompt you into a discussion of the different communication styles that I have had over the years and the different lessons I have taken from speaking over the years. For example, the difference in the way that we use visual support material. How I use visual support material now to communicate is significantly different to the way that I would have done it 10 years ago, which in turn, is significantly different again to the way that I would have done it 40 years ago, when the most common form of visual support material was an artist's easel with butcher's paper put on it and a marking pen. I learned lots of things about how to use that butcher's paper and a marking pen so you didn't get bleed through and so that you didn't put too much on it and so that it worked. I don't do that anymore because I don't need to, but the skills that I learned then, the communication skills that I learned then, have gone through. So the thing about the Pathways program is that there is, as you say, flexibility. One of the downfalls of the Pathways program and I'll be quite honest about this is that levels one and two are effectively the same in all paths. Level one is identical across all 11 paths. You do those same six speeches. Level two is normally my communication style or, if it's a leadership path that you're doing, my leadership style.

Speaker 2: 53:41

A second speech which will be somehow related to your particular path. In the case of inspiring humour, for example, there's one on learning about your sense of humour. The third one is always introduction to mentoring. Now we've spoken earlier about mentors and how important mentoring is in the Toastmasters experience in the wider world. What introduction to mentoring does is it asks you to reflect on a time when you have been a protege. Talk about what you have learned or not learned from your mentors. If you're doing 11 different paths, you're giving the same speech 11 times. That's boring as well. No, you don't give the same speech. Change it every time.

Speaker 2: 54:32

I remember one version of introduction to mentoring when I talked about the three people in radio who have been my mentors for all these years. One of them I spoke about, bob Kirschner. I gave another version of that speech talking about my primary mentor, that is, my father, because everything that I am is a reflection of who he was, not always a direct reflection, sometimes it's a mirror reflection, but it remains that everything I am is a reflection of my father, the one that I'm actually really quite proud of was I did, one called Osmosis and Osiris. Osiris was the Egyptian grandson of Ra who first brought knowledge and laws and things like that to the Egyptian people. According to the Egyptian mythology, osiris sat from above and imparted knowledge and told you what to do and how to do it.

Speaker 2: 55:43

Osmosis, which sounds like Osiris, is the scientific process where molecules of one liquid are absorbed through a semipermeable membrane into a second liquid, particularly things like blood through cell walls. The thing about osmosis is that's how most of us learn Whether we're aware of it or not, we are absorbing that which is around us. There is a theory that we are, in fact, the sum total of the five people who are closest to us.

Speaker 2: 56:22

We learn from them via osmosis. So there are two that we can learn, two methods by which we can be mentored either osiris, passing on the knowledge and us doing as we're told, or osmosis, absorbing that which surrounds us. The point that I'm making during that speech, of course, is that it is important that you surround yourself with people from whom you are going to absorb the right things, rather than and then, for that matter, who you are going to osmote to.

Speaker 2: 56:51

Yes that makes sense. So, yeah, the reason that I mentioned this is because it shows that there is enormous flexibility in what we do. I'm a coach, I'm a teacher, it's what I do. I like to think that I'm entertaining while I'm doing it, but I just can't help teaching, or at least coaching and that style of thing. Other people, their knowledge, may vary and they will get from Toastmasters whatever they wish to get from Toastmasters.

Speaker 1: 57:25

Yes, it's interesting, you mentioned the mentoring speech. I did that on Wednesday night, actually in Mount Gravatt, and it's the second time I've done that speech and when I first saw it again I thought oh. My first thought was like, oh, I just. And when I thought about it and got past the oh, I have to do that again, it ended up being a call to action about how I want to revamp the mentoring program in our club, because we all get, depending on which mentor you're allocated and their experience, and everyone has such a different way of approaching it.

Speaker 1: 58:04

But I wanted to put in place at least checklists and there's plenty of resources. It's not like those resources don't exist. But I came away from it thinking, okay, I really want to at least standardize the experience and help mentors understand what's available and then help mentees also understand what's available. And yeah, and so taking that on as a bit of a project over the next little while about revamping the mentoring program. So that's actually what that speech is. Is it planted the seed for me to do which I wasn't expecting One?

Speaker 2: 58:43

of the things that you will discover as you do more and more, because you're only on your second path.

Speaker 1: 58:47

Yes, only Sorry no, no.

Speaker 2: 58:50

one of the things that you will discover as you do paths is that you think oh, how many times can I do an icebreaker? You can do an icebreaker a million times because you're always telling your club members something new. You can do the mentoring speech a dozen times because there's something new that we have learned. One of the speeches I talked about was where I learned really bad things from my mentors not only bad practices, but I had mentors who were really, quite to be quite honest, crappy mentors and from whom I learned nothing, and whose fault was that was part of what I discussed in the presentation Was it my fault for not striving? The point that I make is that you can continue to develop.

Speaker 1: 59:36

Yeah, absolutely. And so with so many pathways on you about and so much experience and you've won competitions at the district level and evaluation contests and table topics contests what sort of goals do you have for this year for Toastmasters?

Speaker 2: 59:55

My goal for this year for Toastmasters is to stop being quite so committed. I mentioned six clubs, Well yeah six clubs means six membership fees. Yes, and I'm a pensioner these days, and so you know six membership fees. My other goal is that I am going to allow other people to carry the roles. Yeah, I am in six clubs and I currently have eight officer positions.

Speaker 1: 1:00:33

Oh my goodness, that is.

Speaker 2: 1:00:34

I'm president of a couple of clubs. I'm vice president of education for a couple of clubs. I'm secretary and treasurer of one club. I'm secretary of another. Well, my plan for next year.

Speaker 2: 1:00:45

I'm going to reduce the number of clubs that I am in from six to four and I am going to reduce the number of roles that I am in down to one, and that is Sergeant at Arms at my Friday lunchtime club, because I genuinely like being the Zoom master. I actually enjoy the experience and I enjoy making sure that the experience of those online is equivalent to those in the room, and vice versa, because it's really easy. Earlier we spoke about the work meeting, where most of you are in a room and then there are one or two people who have Zoomed in or Skyped in or teamed in or whatever, and the experience for them is never as good, yeah, but it should be.

Speaker 1: 1:01:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:36

And I enjoy being able to make sure that it is. It's my plan for I mean. The other thing is that I am currently at the time of recording. I am currently the area representative in evaluation, and humorous, for one area and the area representative in the table topics for another area. So I've got three potential division level competitions coming on. If I win one or more of those, then it's district, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

By the way, there are the three competitions that I've mentioned there. There's the table topics, which is the impromptu speaking competition. There's the evaluation, which is where somebody gives a speech yes, then we evaluate them, and there's the humorous speech. The one that's not listed in those is the international speech. The international speech for those from outside TERS Masters is a. It used to be called the serious speech contest, but there has to be humor and it just won't work. The international speech contest is called the international contest because it is the only one that goes international. You have clubs which you are a member of. There are four to six clubs involved in an area, then there are 25 to 35 clubs in a division and then there are however many six or seven or eight divisions in a district. So most of the competitions, the three that I am a competitor in only go to district level. The international can go one past to the world championship of public speaking, which happens every year at the international convention. I would love to get past the club level international speech.

Speaker 1: 1:03:37

Yeah, me too I never have. Same.

Speaker 2: 1:03:41

Actually I tell a lie. I've got to area a couple of times, but I have never got past area.

Speaker 1: 1:03:45

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:03:47

I'm no good at writing those speeches. They have inspirational and heart-rending and theatrical. And to win the competitions. Yes, my aspirations, I'll be honest, are much more toward the Ted style speeches rather than the Toastmasters World Championship style speeches. But having said that, I am going to the international convention in Anaheim in California this year Awesome and I will get to see the world championship of public speaking in person, and I am so excited about that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:20

Oh, which month is that that's?

Speaker 2: 1:04:23

in August.

Speaker 1: 1:04:24

Oh, okay, wow, and have you been to an international?

Speaker 2: 1:04:27

No, I was due to go to the convention in Paris a couple of years ago. I see Koth got in the way, not with me, but in the way with the world. They actually canceled the conference. We all went online. There was one in Kuala Lumpur a few years ago, which would have been great, but I wasn't in Toastmasters at the time.

Speaker 1: 1:04:47

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:04:48

I have a daughter who lives in the United States. We're going over, we're going to spend well. Basically, I will spend a week doing Toastmasters stuff. My wife and daughter will do, you know, mother-daughter bonding. Then we'll move over to where she lives in Washington DC for a week and I get to go and see some of the things I want to see in Washington. I catch up with some of my friends.

Speaker 2: 1:05:13

I have one of my online clubs is primarily based in Florida.

Speaker 2: 1:05:19

I mean, there are members from all across the world, some in the US, some in the UK, some in Australia, some in New Zealand, but probably half the membership is actually based in Florida, and so I'd really like to just get down and catch up with them and say, yeah, this is the other thing, by the way, about Toastmasters that I will mention. If you join a Toastmasters club, when you have your little badge, it says along the top of the badge Toastmasters International, and that international is important. It means, effectively, that you can go to any Toastmasters club in the world, provided it's not a closed corporate club and there are some of those Pretty much. If you contact a Toastmasters club in the place where you are going for a holiday and say, hey, I'd really like to come along to your meeting. They will make you. They'll kill the fatted calf. They will call lay on. I've gone to Toastmasters club meetings in Lake Havasu in Arizona where they actually arranged a party of all the club members after the meeting just so they could welcome me.

Speaker 1: 1:06:28

Oh, that's great.

Speaker 2: 1:06:31

But yeah, you will be made most welcome at any club, and the beauty of it is. I know you were speaking to a member in an earlier podcast who said that she hadn't had the experience of going to other clubs. She'd been to a career and division contest but hadn't been to other clubs. I encourage members to visit as many clubs as they can before they join, but certainly, once they have joined, keep visiting other clubs, because every club does things slightly differently. There are some things that remain the same In all clubs.

Speaker 2: 1:07:02

You will have a Toastmaster. In all clubs you will have prepared presentations and evaluations of those prepared presentations. In all clubs you will have table topics. In some clubs there will be evaluation of the table topics. In some clubs there will not. In some clubs there will be an Arm R counter, and I hate the role of Arm R counter. It actually has value, believe it or not it does. There's the Drumerian, where you get a word which you might never use again bifurcate. You're never likely to use bifurcate in a non-medical context, but there are ways that you can use that.

Speaker 1: 1:07:39

Yes, bonsai is plants. You can bifurcate plants.

Speaker 2: 1:07:42

Yes, and the thing is that you're asked to try to use that word during the meeting, in which Kate might say look, we've been going down one path, but let's bifurcate for a moment, and so you get to use the code. So there are these different roles, but different roles for different clubs. Some clubs have what's called a warm-up, where everybody gets to speak for perhaps 20 seconds at the beginning of the meeting on a topic, and it just literally goes around the table, the idea being that everybody gets a chance to warm up their vocal chords and nobody has to come to a Toastmasters meeting and not say anything. Guests, on the other hand, and again getting back to, if you're coming along to Toastmasters for the first time, you don't have to speak. You're encouraged to, you're welcome to, but you don't have to. If you'd rather just say I'll pass if I may, then not gonna pressure you.

Speaker 1: 1:08:33

Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:08:34

Yes, go to as many clubs as you can, because every club is different and, to use the line from the castle, it's the vibe, it really is it is the vibe. It changes from club to club.

Speaker 1: 1:08:51

It definitely does, and even the vibe can change within a club over years, depending on the exec and just members come and go and we had a spectacular meeting at Mount Gravatt this week where we had a couple of new members, a couple of guests, a couple of returning guests, and we got some of them to do table topics. They were asked and they got up and they blew it out of the park and we gave them the option and one passed and three of the four accepted and they just did such an awesome job and I think we're sort of seeing skills like that. Just I think people are getting a little bit more skilled in that in ways that they might not even know. It's been an interesting evolution to watch new people coming into the clubs and say, doing their icebreaker speeches, and the bar just seems to be being lifted. I don't know. That's kind of the sense I get at the moment. I don't know. I don't know if you're seeing that.

Speaker 2: 1:10:06

I think you may will be right in the sense that we are all having to communicate in our jobs, in the workplace, and so people are coming in with I mean, it's a basic skill set, but they have some skills. What Toastmasters can do under those circumstances is parlay those skills into something much bigger. For those, those that are moving from having no skills to wanting some skills again, it's a great starting place. I had in one of my earliest Toastmasters clubs. We had a member who was an unskilled laborer working at a car plant in Adelaide who, when he joined the club, had difficulty stringing half a dozen words together without one of them including.

Speaker 1: 1:11:12

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:11:14

By the time I left that club, he wasn't ever going to be a professional speaker, but he was able to give presentations that would marshal his team at the car plant together and get them working. He was able to move from being, as I say, an unskilled laborer to being a team leader online, and that's amazing and I have to say I was inordinately proud of him, even if he did turn up to meetings wearing Ugg boots. Well, we don't necessarily have just You're talking about the vibe of different clubs.

Speaker 1: 1:12:03

I really should get to Mount Gravatt Club.

Speaker 2: 1:12:05

Physically meets 1400 meters from my front door. I could work there on a Wednesday night, except of course I don't. But and I said I'm reducing my number of clubs, not increasing, but one of the things I like about Mount Gravatt Club and one of the things I like about Crest which is my other community club, if you like the evening club is that they have such a disparate group of members completely.

Speaker 1: 1:12:36

It's awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:12:38

There are academics, yeah, there are sales staff, young fathers who are juggling their being a dad, and anybody who's ever been a young parent knows the juggling that is involved there. Yeah, but still managed to come along and give not only great presentations but also act as leaders within the club. There's, you know, I, I love community clubs because yeah there is so much balance.

Speaker 2: 1:13:12

I mean, I love my specialty clubs, I'm honest. I mean one of my clubs, as I say, is a storytelling club, and it's all about storytelling, and in that we have some people who have been telling stories for 80 years oh wow, and it's amazing to watch them. But I also genuinely love community clubs, because there is such a wide diversity that happens in them, and once you've been a Toastmaster for a while, you get to pay it back. I've mentioned earlier that I am a teacher, that is, you know what I do. It wasn't my primary job as a journalist, but as I got more and more advanced in my career, I became more and more a mentor and coach for the journalists who were joining into my newsrooms, for example, I ended up. My last full-time job was as news director of a Metropolitan radio station. The thing is, though, there's a moment when you are teaching somebody something, or showing somebody something, or explaining to somebody something, or they're just watching, and you see this little flickering of light, and then suddenly the light bulb goes on above their head.

Speaker 1: 1:14:28

Yes, fling, you can see it. There, it is, there it is, and it just feels so good.

Speaker 2: 1:14:34

Well, that's why I'm still in Toastmasters, because I love to watch that light bulb go on. And, I'll be honest, I love to watch when new members pass me and become better international speakers than I am. Or they take on the leadership roles that I've had and they do a better job of it than I have done. I love that and that's why I keep coming.

Speaker 1: 1:15:03

Oh, it's, it's, it's. I agree. I agree with everything you've said, because it's it's just such a collaborative environment and we all want to see each other succeed and I think it's that ethos and that keeps people coming back. And you know, is and is there anything else that you'd like to share before we wrap up, because I feel we could keep talking about this. You know all day, hence the name of the show the talkative Toastmaster. But yeah, is there anything else that you'd like to?

Speaker 2: 1:15:36

Yeah, don't feel that if you join Toastmasters, you're going to be sucked into an organization that is going to take 40 years of your life. I am an outlier that is. The average length of time that a member is in Toastmasters is around about 12 to 18 months. They learn what they need to learn and then they move on. Now we're grateful if people stay longer and stay around to lead. We're also grateful when if, after they've moved away and done other stuff in their life, they come back which is what I did, for example, and with which is what you did.

Speaker 2: 1:16:22

But don't feel that you're going to have to give up a kidney to join Toastmasters. Yeah, yeah, my son refers to it as Dad Off with his cult tonight and sometimes, I'll admit, it does feel a little that way when you remember of six clubs. At one stage I was an area director for an area in the south of Brisbane which had five clubs, so I had six clubs of my own, four other clubs that I was going to visit regularly and yeah, I can do it because I'm retired.

Speaker 1: 1:16:56

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:16:56

But don't feel that you have to give a kidney. But if you've not joined a Toastmasters club and you're listening to this podcast, please check it out. You will be astounded at the improvements that you will see in yourself in an incredibly short period of time. I mean it's a bit like gym membership. Of course, If you join and then never turn up, then all you are doing is handing your money over to somebody else. It's only when you actually get onto the machines and start lifting the weights and hit the treadmill and that sort of thing that you actually get benefits.

Speaker 2: 1:17:31

Same with Toastmasters is when you start giving speeches, when you step into roles, when you say, yeah, I'm going to be Toastmasters, it's scary, but I'm going to do it. That's when you start to learn and develop. But you will be amazed at how fast you will grow as a communicator and as a leader. Toastmasters used to have the slogan better listening, better thinking, better speaking, because you actually had to do it in that order you had to listen, then think, then speak. Since then it has changed its slogan to Toastmasters where leaders are made. And that's true because, as I said before, most people join Toastmasters to learn how to speak. They stay to learn how to lead, and then after a while you just do it because you want to give back, because you've got so much benefit yourself.

Speaker 1: 1:18:20

I agree. You couldn't agree with you more and you've really summed up, certainly, I think, the many benefits of being a Toastmaster and just checking it out, and so I really appreciate your time today, graeme, and it's been so interesting to hear about Toastmasters from your perspective and how it's led you into professional speaking on ships and just the many aspects of Toastmasters that you've experienced. So thank you so much for joining me today.

Speaker 2: 1:18:54

Thank you very much. I know I can speak under a wet cement with a mouthful of jappers, but hey, thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:19:02

I really appreciate it. See you later.

Speaker 2: 1:19:05

While you're still recording. Yeah Well, you were so delightful last time. How could I turn down an invitation to come back again? That way, if this is too long and you want to cut it into two bits, you can do a second introduction saying you remember, you know, four weeks ago we spoke to. Well, I've invited Graeme back and then use my that bit there to get into the second lot.

Speaker 1: 1:19:29

Okay, yeah, absolutely, and.

Speaker 2: 1:19:31

I do know that we've just been speaking for an hour.

Speaker 1: 1:19:33

Yeah, that's cool. And yeah, that's cool, and I don't mind if. You know, even with the editing it'll probably be now, and that's cool. You know, I'm sort of still experimenting with time, so I'll probably leave it as one episode, but yeah, definitely.

Speaker 2: 1:19:53

I mean, take out what you don't want.

Speaker 1: 1:19:56

Oh, I probably won't take a whole. I don't tend to take anything out other than gaps, or if I stuff up, or you know like you know and edit and and necessary edit. But I don't tend to cut out whole chunks of stuff because I find it interesting. I want to have a look.

Speaker 2: 1:20:15

I've been loving those that I've been listening to.

Speaker 1: 1:20:17

Oh, thank you. Yeah, and and I think even if it becomes I mean my initial concept was getting newbies interested in it, but I think even for Toastmasters who are listening to it, seeing what else is available. So you know those, those people who've maybe been in Toastmasters for a year or so and really haven't explored outside of the club or contests or other things. So, and also planning the seeds for you know, you can get into professional speaking. It's all within the possibility if you keep at it. And yeah, it's funny because my mother joined my mother and I joined Toastmasters the first time, I think in 1994. And so she, after each episode, she texts me. She's like, oh, that was such an interesting interview. She gives me a point for improvement. She's like you're saying absolutely too much. Okay, thank you, right, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:21:14

Mum.

Speaker 2: 1:21:17

Funny, you should mention you joined Toastmasters at the same time as your mother. I, as I mentioned, joined Toastmasters when I was in Tamworth.

Speaker 1: 1:21:25

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21:26

Yeah, young DJ, mid-ranking DJ, mid-ranking station, mid-ranking CD winner. I was always going to be here. One of my colleagues said you got to join. About a week later, my mother and I having one of our you know not very regular phone calls, and she said there's nothing new happening. I said, well, actually I've joined this public speaking club. And she said what Toastmasters? And I said yes, I joined here last week. She was in this fail. I was in Tamworth and we had both joined in the same week.

Speaker 1: 1:22:05

Oh, that's funny. Oh, wow, who Wow, is she still.

Speaker 2: 1:22:11

No, she died a few years ago, did she, she and Dad? No, she was in until probably her mid-80s. Wow, she stayed a member, oh the sources. Yeah, dad was also a member for a while, but then Alzheimer's or anyway, so he drifted away and then mum couldn't drive, and so you know, my sister at one stage, my eldest sister, who was a school teacher, or was a school teacher before she retired. She was a member for a while, for a few years, but nowhere near as committed.

Speaker 2: 1:22:48

My wife was vice president education for a couple of clubs, but these days she said, no, that's your thing.

Speaker 1: 1:22:55

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:22:56

It's not a thing, it's becoming common, isn't it Like?

Speaker 1: 1:22:59

some won't bring their partners because it's like no.

Speaker 2: 1:23:02

I know we'd be quite happy to bring. Yeah, she'll as often as she'd like to come. But you know she's saying no, look, that is your thing, you know you go and enjoy and I will stay here and watch the cricket.

Speaker 1: 1:23:15

Fair enough.

Speaker 2: 1:23:16

Which is what she's doing right now.

Speaker 1: 1:23:17

Oh perfect. Oh well, everyone, everyone's, everyone's winning. You're talking about Toastmasters.

Speaker 2: 1:23:22

She's watching the cricket, yep.

Speaker 1: 1:23:24

Oh well, I, yeah, I really appreciate, really appreciate the chat and it was, yeah, really interesting sort of stories.

Speaker 2: 1:23:31

So, yeah, I can't wait to to kind of package it up and I'll look forward to listening to to the edits Now you're doing so. You had somebody on this week which I haven't heard yet.

Speaker 1: 1:23:44

Let me see. Let me see, Because I record them like yeah recorded quite a lot. So yeah, jeff Roberts actually was the most recent.

Speaker 2: 1:23:56

Yes, he's also really genuinely nice bloke.

Speaker 1: 1:24:01

He is, he's lovely. Yeah, he's the current. He's my current area director.

Speaker 2: 1:24:06

Oh, yeah, right.

Speaker 1: 1:24:07

Yeah, Area 26, which is weird because he's not his home club is not in area 26. I know he's.

Speaker 2: 1:24:13

he's one of the other ones from yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:24:15

Mad Chatters.

Speaker 2: 1:24:16

Yes, yeah. Well, our area director is also from Mad Chatters.

Speaker 1: 1:24:20

Oh, who's that?

Speaker 2: 1:24:26

I should know, but I actually don't.

Speaker 1: 1:24:27

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:28

I'm not. I'm not president of the club, so I haven't had a lot to do with it.

Speaker 1: 1:24:31

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:31

Yeah, the funny thing is when Mad Chatters got pulled into area 27, which is, I mean, they're a long way away from area 27,. But they got pulled into area 27. Yeah, one of the members from Mad Chatters became our area director in 27 and another became area 26.

Speaker 1: 1:24:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I don't know yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:24:57

The. It's always difficult. Well, I mean, it's a really good club, but it's it's getting more and more difficult to get people to step into area director.

Speaker 1: 1:25:04

I'm pondering it, but only if I can do, area 26.

Speaker 2: 1:25:07

Do it.

Speaker 1: 1:25:08

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:08

Seriously.

Speaker 1: 1:25:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:10

I mean I've been area director, area director twice or three times and area governor once. I mean that's telling you how far back ago.

Speaker 1: 1:25:20

Yeah, landon was telling me about area governor, so that was. That was before my time or probably before my comprehension of the world outside of the club.

Speaker 2: 1:25:29

But yeah, yeah, no, I was. I was first, I was area governor and then division governor. But I mean, when I say I was division governor, which is division director, it's at that stage the division had eight clubs.

Speaker 1: 1:25:46

Right, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:47

Much bigger than a, than a small area.

Speaker 1: 1:25:49

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:25:50

Actually, no, there must have been 10 clubs, because there were four clubs in one area or an Adelaide, four clubs in another area or an Adelaide and then two clubs in the third area in the southeast of the state. So there are only clubs. So being area governor was not a particularly arduous role, but yeah, but yeah, what I was going to say about being area governor yeah, it's challenging, yeah, you have to go and visit other clubs and you oh, I don't mind that.

Speaker 2: 1:26:14

One of the things is you have to. You have to resist the temptation to go to those, all of those clubs, all of the time, because you know you want to, you want to go and help, you want to you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you only have to go twice a year to each club. Yeah, but you, you. I found that I was doing an area visit every month.

Speaker 1: 1:26:40

Okay.

Speaker 2: 1:26:41

Which means that you know of the four clubs.

Speaker 1: 1:26:42

To every club.

Speaker 2: 1:26:43

No, not every club everyone.

Speaker 1: 1:26:45

Oh, okay, all right.

Speaker 2: 1:26:48

But I would be doing two official area visits but I would also go to visit one of my clubs.

Speaker 1: 1:26:53

Yeah, a month, okay, yeah, yeah, that's fine.

Speaker 2: 1:26:56

Yeah, I mean, I don't have kids. When you're only in two clubs, it's not a great drama.

Speaker 1: 1:27:00

I don't have kids.

Speaker 2: 1:27:02

And I.

Speaker 1: 1:27:02

I'm single so.

Speaker 2: 1:27:04

I I have time. Seriously take on area director. It is a great role and it is a really good learning role.

Speaker 1: 1:27:10

Yeah, well, and one of the other inspirations and motives actually, since I started doing the podcast is like, oh cool, I can get more people to come on the show, you know, find more people and I want to tell people stories. Like that's actually what I want to do with this podcast now. So if I move from no more solo episodes to guests every week, then I yeah, I, so that is a bit of a and also just creating a resource for the area. And you know, because my, my hope with with the episodes is that if people wanted, you know, if other clubs wanted, to use some of the content or use it to help explain what Toastmasters is and, by the way, he's our, you know, he's one of our members talking about their experience and just, yeah, you know, I'd like an episode with someone from every club in you know the division or district and just working my way around it. So you know, Leading Edge has been fabulous for that, for the contacts that.

Speaker 2: 1:28:11

I got to say one of the things about Leading Edge because I was one of the you know club sponsors. I think I was club sponsor. One of the things that I love about Leading Edge is and I spoke about it when we were talking is you don't have to be the Atlas holding up the club.

Speaker 1: 1:28:27

No.

Speaker 2: 1:28:28

Instead of being the big fish in a small pond, you just become just another fish and and all the fish are happy to do the things. Yeah yeah, yeah, every time you go to an area conference or a division conference pretty much the whole club's there, because that's what we do.

Speaker 1: 1:28:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:28:43

You all should be committed All right, I'll leave you to it.

Speaker 1: 1:28:46

Thanks so much, Graham. Really appreciate the chat.

Speaker 2: 1:28:50

I'm going to go and buy my tickets to go off and see Dune tonight.

Speaker 1: 1:28:54

Excellent, all right. Well, thanks so much, and I'll see you on Wednesday night.

Speaker 2: 1:28:57

See you Wednesday.

Speaker 1: 1:28:57

All right, cheers. Thank you.