Speaker 1 0:03

okay, so we're recording. Okay, just have a bit of a drink. All righty, I'll start in three, two, one. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 41. This week I'm joined by my fellow leading edge Edge Club member, colin Williams. Colin has been a Toastmaster for 10 years, is currently a member of three clubs and has had a spectacular year, winning both the District 69 international and humorous speaking contests. In May, he then went on to represent Australasia in the Region 12 quarterfinals and has just returned from speaking at the 2024 convention in Anaheim, california. For anyone who may not know exactly what that means, colin was one of the final 28 people in the entire global Toastmasters organization to compete in this year's World Championship of Public Speaking. Colin, congratulations on this incredible achievement and welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 1:12

Thank you very much, Mel. It's great to be here.

Speaker 1 1:15

I'm really looking forward to hearing about your Toastmasters journey and the contest experience and the way you craft such powerful and memorable speeches. But can you first start by telling us why you joined Toastmasters and how old you were when you first joined?

Speaker 3 1:32

I was 58 when I first joined Toastmasters. But I'd heard about them years before and thought to myself that sounds interesting, but never really got up the courage to go along to a meeting. And when I was 58, I phoned up. Someone told them I was going to come, got to the door I thought, shall I or shan't I? And I walked through the door, sat down with those people and I knew I was among my tribe. From then on there was no turning back. I loved it. I fell in love with it straight away.

Speaker 1 2:06

And what was the clincher that finally got you through to the door? You know, through the door and having thought about it for a while, what was the turning point?

Speaker 3 2:15

It was just sort of have a go, have a go at something. There's nothing to be lost, no one's going to yell at you and tell you you can't speak. I just went in there. There were a few friendly faces, they sat me down. I watched a meeting, enjoyed it, and there was one man who was there who he had some sort of disability walking-wise and he also really struggled to speak. And I saw him get up there and deliver a five to seven minute speech and I thought, well, if he can do it, surely I can do it. I shouldn't be such a sook and just get in there and have a go.

Speaker 1 2:56

Excellent, and which club did you start off with in your journey?

Speaker 3 3:00

I started at Redlands about 10 years ago and that's local to me. I live at Redland Bay and it was a very welcoming club, very friendly community club, and I was there, probably around. I probably was there about four years, but after a couple of years I joined a second club as well, which was Leading Edge, okay, and then later on I joined Bee Change.

Speaker 1 3:25

So you're now a member of three clubs, so you spend a lot of time, obviously, speaking at Toastmasters meetings, and did that warm you up to get into the contest scene?

Speaker 3 3:39

Well, when I first went I had no idea there was contests and somebody asked me are you competitive? And I said well, only fiercely so. I. Then they told me, and the first contest I went into it was called a Tyro or Novice and you couldn't enter it if you'd given more than five Toastmasters speeches and the night of the contest I had worked for weeks getting a speech ready, writing a speech that I considered clever and funny in places and with a message, and I've rehearsed and rehearsed and rehearsed and it turned out there was two of us in the contest for the club.

Speaker 3 4:24

And the other one was a good friend of mine at the time, Case Holtzman, and we were competing against each other and all that effort I put in was totally wasted because he spoke for nine and a half minutes and was disqualified.

Speaker 1 4:42

Oh no, you went through anyway. I went through anyway. Yes.

Speaker 3 4:47

Then I went to the area and I won the area and got my first trophy. Yeah, I thought, oh, I like the feel of this, so I thought I'll have a go at the proper contests and pretty much straight away, had a go at entering mainly the speech contests. I'm not all that good at table topics as a matter of fact, I could be horrific at table topics and evaluation. I'm pretty ordinary, but when I get time to sit down and really work on a speech, that's when I've managed to get some success out of speaking.

Speaker 1 5:25

Okay, and so 10 years in. What do you most enjoy about being a member of Toastmasters?

Speaker 3 5:33

Well, I know it's the trite answer that everyone gives, but it is the people. It is absolutely the people. They do become like a family and I have had such immense support over the years by every member of every club that I've been in, and I try to reciprocate. We all want we're not competing against each other, we're trying to help each other move up.

Speaker 1 6:03

Yeah, absolutely, we're sort of helping each other compete against ourselves and improve ourselves every step of the way. Actually, a few episodes ago I was speaking with Hilary Saxton, who she was saying you helped her in your humorous contest that you were both speaking in and she mentioned that you were helping her and that's very you know, it's very much what you're saying. It's everyone wants everyone to succeed.

Speaker 3 6:30

uh, yeah that is right. Yeah, um, there are a lot of very unselfish people in Toastmasters people, um, especially in your club or locally. You you know, when it gets international there might be like a bit of fun and games, but everyone is supportive to everyone. Yeah, and, like, sometimes the contest results may not go the way everyone wants them to go, and that's something where it's hard to sort of console someone who believes they should have done better, but it's part of the game and the.

Speaker 3 7:14

The fact is and this is one of the lessons I've learned over the years and it took me a long time to learn it is that although there is a criteria for contests, it is still subjective to a degree, because the judges all have their own unconscious biases and they all have different interpretations of what's written down on that sheet. You might see it in like diving in the Olympics, where someone will give 3.5 and someone will give 5.8, and you think, well, how can you get such disparity? But it's because humans are humans and that's what I learned, and I learned it late. When you're competing, think to yourself I'll do the talking, let the judges do the judging, and just forget about the judging side of it and just try to be a better speaker today than you were yesterday.

Speaker 1 8:10

Yeah, absolutely, and you know we all have access to the judging criteria and can create speeches that nail the criteria. But yeah, as you say, it's very you know, it's ultimately still humans making subjective decisions in the end. And oh, I guess that, you know, is part of, as you say, part of the whole contest journey.

Speaker 3 8:35

When you say we all have the criteria. Early in my competing career I didn't know they existed. Uh, I thought I'm I'm giving a humorous speech. And I got up I was in a division final and I gave up, came up and gave a speech and everyone was falling about laughing for most of the speech and I thought, well, that that's easy. And I finished third in that speech and I thought what am I missing? And they said did you follow the criteria?

Speaker 1 9:10

Criteria. What criteria?

Speaker 3 9:12

And then you start looking at what you're supposed to be doing.

Speaker 1 9:15

Yeah, absolutely, and I discovered the criteria early on because I remember I somehow made it through, stephen Bradbury-esque. I was the only speaker in a humorous contest, which I really didn't want to do in my club. But I got myself out of my comfort zone and competed and was the only speaker. But I was watching YouTube videos on humorous speeches and winners of humorous contests and they said follow the criteria, you don't have to be a comedian, you've just got to have a logical speech, a well-structured speech, and I think humor accounted for something like 15% of the marks. And you think, how can this be? And I saw a speaker who'd won the contest more or less say the same thing as you where he was a comedian and he kept getting you know second or third, and it was only when he read the criteria and started to speak to that that you know that he started to win.

Speaker 3 10:16

So yeah, Absolutely yeah, and early on I was sorry, early on I was, are you right? Yeah, yeah, just wait a minute for a little bit.

Speaker 3 10:32

All right, sorry. Early on I was sort of typecast as someone who did humorous speeches and I had some success and got to district a few times. But my passion was always the international speech contest. And there's a speaker who's no longer Toastmaster, kate Duncan, and she advised me to, before you go into international speeches, learn how to do humorous speeches well, and I didn't purposely do that, but that's what I ended up doing. I had a few.

Speaker 3 11:13

I had a third district in humorous, then a second and then in 2022, I got to the final in district, in both humorous and international, and I finished second in both. So that sort of made me think I was on the right track. And then I had a year where I didn't get through. I didn't get through. I was knocked out at club level by by Daryl in our club yeah, he knocked me out in the club level and then in my international speech I got knocked out at division level. But I came back this year and the humor, the international speech that I had, is one that I've been working on for quite a while. But my humorous speech which was the surprise to me I'd only worked on that for a couple of months, and it just seemed to hit the right note on the day.

Speaker 1 12:16

Yeah, and apparently the fact that you won both contests in the one district convention or contest was the first time that's ever been done, so that in itself was was a milestone and uh, yeah, and so what was the logic that your um, that kate, gave you about getting to do humorous? You know, getting used to doing humorous contests first and then moving on to international what? What was that about? Like, why? What's the thinking behind that?

Speaker 3 12:49

I think that it's seen as a less pressure uh contest. For a start, because everyone's after the international, because that gets you the opportunity to speak in the world champion of public speaking, and the other one teaches you how to bring some humour into your speeches as well. Like humorous speech is more or less an international speech with humour in it. Yeah, they're pretty much interchangeable. There are some good humorous speeches that could be international speeches, and especially some of the American speakers tend to always try to put humour in their international speeches. Um, so, you know, to get the audience warmed up and engaged, that's what it's all yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 13:36

I mean it's good to it can't be all massively serious. You know serious speeches all the time, but I get that again. Part of the criteria is that logical, well-formed speech with a message and the call to action, and you know the rah-rah factor. So yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting bit of feedback anyway, and good advice for anyone considering coming up to contest season as we are again again, so soon Not me.

Speaker 3 14:12

I've decided to hang the contest boots up. I achieved. I wanted to win something at district and I ended up winning the two, and I think that's a good way to bow out I and it. I don't want anyone to be fooled the contest. If you're going to do it properly and get to the top level, you have to work hard. You have to really work on the speech, really edit and trim every sentence, every word, and then you have to get it. I always someone told me once that you've got to not learn your speech, but know it. It doesn't have to be word perfect, exactly how it's written down, but you have to know it so that when you get on the stage, all you have to worry about is engaging with the audience. And gestures are a thing that I've never even considered, because they just seem to happen. My hands just move when I talk. It's not something that I have to work on.

Speaker 1 15:23

Okay, and I guess along those lines, can you perhaps tell us about that journey in the last 12 months, because you've spent a fair bit of the last 12 months focusing on two very powerful speeches. So, yeah, can you tell us about, you know, when you started to craft those and yeah, just how the last year has been for you, because it's been epic, those and yeah just how the last year has been for you, because it's been epic.

Speaker 3 15:47

It has. It has Both the speeches. When you go to America you need two speeches, one for the semi-final and one for the final, and both the speeches I was taking this year. I have had been working on for maybe five years each, the one that I took all the way to district. I have put so much work into that. This year I've trimmed it, edited it, got it to exactly where I wanted it and then had to learn it. And I would be driving and I did some work while I was in this last year, because I'm retired now, but I'd be driving and I'd do my speech three times on the way to work and three times on the way home and over the time I would say I had I had rehearsed that speech maybe 400 times and I had recorded it on film, on camera, about 100 times.

Speaker 3 16:50

Wow, because that's a great way to just have a look from the audience's angle. Because when you're looking in a mirror or something like that, you only ever see yourself looking straight in the mirror yes, or something like that, you only ever see yourself looking straight in the mirror, yes, but when you're doing it to a pretend audience. Then you see how you move across the stage and then you see yourself doing movements and you think what the hell are you doing that for? Yeah, it's a real eye-opener. It's awkward at first. To see yourself on video is painful to start with, but it gets easier, trust me.

Speaker 1 17:28

Yeah, absolutely, and so was that speech. You're talking about Sunshine. That was the one you yeah. Yeah. And so how did you balance in practising Sunshine and Helen, your other speech that you took.

Speaker 3 17:43

I didn't touch the helen speech until after I'd won district. Okay, um, and even then I started rehearsing. I started going to different clubs. People invited me to come along to first my speech and I thought, right, I better start rehearsing helen, in case I get to the States. Because even though I won district, what happens then is the recording the video recording of the district performance gets sent to the States, along with seven other recordings from different districts in region 12. Yep.

Speaker 3 18:24

And out of those eight, seven, eight, out of those eight videos, they select two to go forward to the finals in America. Yep. So six weeks after I won a district, I didn't even know if I'm still going to remember I had to wait for that video, for that email to come.

Speaker 1 18:48

I remember Much anticipation. The whole district was waiting for that email. It was.

Speaker 3 18:54

And it was more than anything, it felt like a relief when I eventually got the nod to go there. Yeah.

Speaker 3 18:59

But you never know, because you don't know who you're up against. There could have been half a dozen really great speeches, because you never know, because you don't know who you're up against. There could have been half a dozen really great speeches, because you never get to see them either. That's the thing. So you've just got to wait for the judges. And then, after I got the nod to go to America, then I started concentrating more on the Helen speech, because I knew the Sunshine speech very, very well, yeah. On the Helen speech, because I knew that the Sunshine speech very, very well, yeah, and the Helen speech. And then at some clubs I, when I was rehearsing, I did both speeches and I found that a little bit difficult, especially at one club I did it back to back. Oh yeah, I didn't have time to get in the mood for the next one.

Speaker 1 19:45

Yeah, it's hard to switch gears between that. That's challenging, you know, and it's a good way to challenge yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 3 19:53

And then, the week before I went to the States, mark Hunter, former world champion of public speaking. He won in 2009, and he's a club mate of mine from Bee Change and he organised a small theatre, yes, gold Coast to have me do my two speeches spaced out and then some feedback from the audience. Now, the feedback from the audience at that stage like five days before I fly out hasn't got to be too severe. Maybe a tiny little thing I can tweak, but the idea is for me to rehearse them in front of a larger audience and get the feel for the audience, and if I'm doing something terrible, then someone can point that out to me. But by that stage I've pretty much got the speeches how I wanted them. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 20:50

And how much of that, because you've been working on those speeches for a while and so how much feedback you know, say, between the district conference and when you left for the States. You know you had a bit of time and I know you were doing rounds of the clubs. Were there any nuggets that came in along? You know the many practice sessions you did at that point that you know influenced you to tweak the speech in any way.

Speaker 3 21:19

I think the biggest influences came earlier on Right. The biggest influences came earlier on right, especially like delivering them in front of people from Leading Edge and B-Change, some very experienced people who just know my style for a start and know the business of speaking. Yeah, I've got some. I can't think of any particular nuggets, but just sometimes they say one of the ones when I was doing Sunshine I think it was Kate Norris said to me why do you look angry all the way through that speech?

Speaker 1 22:01

Because I did.

Speaker 3 22:03

There's always this look of anger on my face all the time. And then I watched the videos and I thought, yes, why? Because I'm talking about happy things. And then all of a sudden and I haven't got the happy look on my face I've got this growly face on. So then that made me lighten up in parts. It's funny the things that other people see that you don't see yourself, and that's the power of being in a great club.

Speaker 1 22:31

Yeah, and especially, as you say, the people that know you well. You know, the Leading Edge members have collectively been together for quite a while and very tight-knit group and, as you say, very. I think the evaluations there are quite a different, you know, level of scrutiny that you might receive in community clubs, which is, you know, one of the reasons I enjoy Leading Edge. But, yeah, it's when those people know you really well as well and they're not trying to take the colon what did you say the other day? They're not trying to take the colon, what did you say the other day? They're not trying to decolonise you.

Speaker 3 23:09

No, I tell people that I colonise my speeches. O-l-i-n-i's yes. And that's the main reason many experienced Toastmasters who had to do with the international contest have said get yourself a coach. I think most of the there were 28 competitors reached Anaheim and I think, if not all, most of them had a coach. But I didn't have a coach because I was afraid a coach. But I didn't have a coach because I was afraid of losing my individuality.

Speaker 3 23:49

That's a word um I I wanted to be to colonize my speech and have people know this is a colon speech, not um, some former winner's speech through somebody else's mouth you know, yeah it, it may not be as severe as that, but I was just worried that if I had someone watering down my style then it could have been like homogenous and then and quite often you do see in contests at that level what you think you're hearing the same speech over and over again. Yeah, um, it's because people are all know the, the system and the method. Uh, maybe I, maybe if I'd listened to someone and got a coach, maybe I could have got through to the final.

Speaker 1 24:34

But we'll never know well, at least you know that, you know you. You sort of went through that far without a coach and you integrated the feedback as you saw fit and trusted the people who knew you and have known you for a long time to you know, to give you honest, authentic feedback and and yeah, I mean- um, when I said sorry, when I say I had no coach, I had 30 coaches in my clubs.

Speaker 3 25:02

Yes, everyone but everyone, doing the best for me, trying to help me?

Speaker 1 25:08

Yeah, absolutely, and I guess along those lines you have mentioned the support you received. You know, along the way, and I know that all of district was sort of there willing you to win, and I know that you had what eight or nine club members over there in the actual room when you were speaking and there was someone watch parties and you know lots of email messages around the place or Facebook messages going give us updates, how's it going? I mean, did you sort of feel?

Speaker 1 25:38

the love and the support. It was wonderful yeah absolutely, absolutely it was.

Speaker 3 25:46

It's amazing to have so many club mates with me at Anaheim in the audience.

Speaker 3 25:55

It it was, it was. It was a bit surreal really because you know, a week before we'd all been meeting at Carindale Library and then the next thing you we're all in Hollywood and it is so heartwarming to have these people so passionately supporting me. There's obviously a bias there, but it's a bias that I will take every day and the people in my clubs back here in Australia watching it at ridiculous times in the morning, and I feel you know you can't help but feel that you've let people down when you don't make it to the final, and I had that feeling for a while and and it's, it's frustrating, but then there's nothing you can do about it. All I can say is that I gave it my best shot and it's the feeling is wonderful to get to win a district is wonderful. That's the thing I'm looking forward to next year watching someone else get up and take that trophy. And I'll know how great they are feeling when their name is called out to pick up that trophy.

Speaker 1 27:19

Yeah, well, even that is a massive milestone, and obviously with one, you know, the international speech is the only one that goes further. So few people really get to experience firstly winning at district level in the international contest and then going anywhere beyond that. So you know, I mean you know that we are massively proud of you and the district is proud of you and Australasia is proud of you, and I know that you got lots of feedback from people in the audience. So you know.

Speaker 3 27:53

That is not to be underestimated the feedback from the audience. A lot of people came up to me after and I was told that there was a woman in tears because the message had touched her so much and a woman was talking to me about it and she couldn't. She had to stop because she was speaking and people were taking selfies with me because not because, maybe not because of the speech, or certainly not because of me, but because they were touched by the message in the speech and that's what they reacted to the fact that someone was speaking up for something that happened to them when they were children.

Speaker 1 28:33

Yeah, absolutely, and I'll pop a link to the recording of your speech in the show notes, you know, just so people can go ahead and listen to that, because it is a powerful message and I know it never had any less impact Me. I heard it many times over the last year and it never failed to have any any less impact. It's like, oh, what's he done now? You know how's he tweaked the speech, what's what's happening with it now, but yeah it it, you know, fantastic message and I'll tell you what you try listen to 400 times.

Speaker 3 29:06

Tell me what you think of it then.

Speaker 1 29:16

Yeah, no, I don't think we got to hear it that many times. Yeah, there were some bits. I'm like I know where this is going, but no, I mean it was a fantastic speech Now in terms of the key lessons you mentioned that you have learned along the way in contests over the years, but what would you say were some of the the key lessons or takeaways from from this experience? Because obviously it's a further. You know you've absolutely got in in your Toastmasters journey. So, yeah, how? What did you learn from the whole experience?

Speaker 3 29:44

I learned the bit about just deliver the speech and let the judges do the judging. I learned that everyone all those 28 people who were in Anaheim competing were exactly the same as me, and 30,000 over 30,000 people enter this contest every year and 28 get to go to the finals. Now, that's amazing that they've done that, and after the whole show is over, there is one person out of that 30,000 who's not disappointed in some way.

Speaker 1 30:26

Yeah.

Speaker 3 30:28

So get used to it. You know it's a big competition, there's lots of people wanting to win it, but so I've always recommended that people enter the contest. Because if you do it properly the amount of work you put into writing it, editing it, rehearsing it, getting your stage movement right you will learn more from that one speech than you will from 20 other speeches that you do at Toastmasters. And the thing is, at Toastmasters we quite often deliver a speech and then we throw it away. Yes, deliver another speech in a few weeks time to throw it away this one. You keep the speech and you keep working on it and making it better and better all the time. So, providing you stay in the contest, if you win at a club, then area, then division, every time you move a step, know you've got to improve that speech and you might think at club level oh, this is how it's going to stay.

Speaker 3 31:36

If you want to go any further, you've got to get that out of your head. You've got to be able to say I want to improve this speech every time I look at it, every time I rehearse it, every time I write anything about it, and sometimes sometimes there's an expression called you've got to kill your darlings. Yes, I've heard it. And you've got a line, one line, and you think that's a good line. Line one line, and you think that's a good line. And then you think but does it serve the speech? Sometimes it doesn't, and then you you've got to. It hurts, but you've got to take that line out. You might be able to use it in another speech sometime, but if it doesn't serve the speech, get rid of it, and then editing is.

Speaker 3 32:26

Editing is probably the biggest part of it. I'm very lucky. I have a strange way of writing speeches where I tend to write it in my head until it's complete. Okay.

Speaker 3 32:43

And then I'll put it on paper and that way I think I get it to flow better. I think I get it to be part of me rather than not sound like something that's been written and then spoken from. That written word like read, like being read out loud To have it conversational. To have it like it's out loud, to have it conversational, to have it like it's me speaking, not using words that I wouldn't ordinarily use and using tones of voice that I wouldn't ordinarily use. I just do it as me. Speak it, yeah.

Speaker 3 33:24

It's like I'm having a chat to someone.

Speaker 1 33:26

Yeah, and you're a natural storyteller, so I think that's probably how it does feel, so conversational, and then obviously you polish it along the way, but it still has that conversational. Sit down, have a fire, you know, chat around the fire with with Colin, kind of a speech like your speech is very much feel like you know, come let me tell you a story, kind of style, you know, and and they are conversational and very vulnerable too. You know, all of your speeches that I've heard at those more advanced levels are very vulnerable as well. I think that kind of connects with the audience.

Speaker 3 34:06

Yes, it does. I think that kind of connects with the audience. Yes, it does, and it's great to have people say, come up to me and say I've been in that situation. Yeah. There's a phrase that Toastmasters use, especially at this level of competition. They say have you ever blah, blah blah? Have you ever blah, blah, blah? Have you ever blah, blah blah? Because it's a thing, it's a. I suppose it's an accepted way to engage with the audience.

Speaker 3 34:39

But, to me that's overdone, so it's a phrase I don't use, but I just hope that the audience is clever enough and I know the audience is clever enough to realize he's saying this oh yes, I've had something like this without me having to prompt them to think about it yeah, but I think, because your speeches are emotive and you've you've got the the visual you know, the the word pictures, the the visual.

Speaker 1 35:07

You know, the the word pictures and the, the, the visuals that you're presenting through the way you describe things and connecting with emotions. I think that's that's what helps you know to resonate with, with people. They can, they can, it's like oh yeah, I've felt that. I've I've either felt that shame or that joy or that. You know that sense of why didn't I stand up for whatever? I won't give away the punchlines of the speeches.

Speaker 1 35:35

But yeah, I think that's what helps. You know, it's that vulnerability and sharing that. Then people can resonate and go oh, I know how you feel that's good.

Speaker 3 35:45

It's good to be able to connect to people. There's another little thing I know because someone asked me the other day do you consider yourself more a speech writer or a speech deliverer? And it's writing all the way. I've had to learn how to deliver a speech, but the writing part comes easier to me. And there's something I've just been noticing lately is that sometimes there's a rhythm to a sentence and I know that it needs three more beats in it. So I'll put a three-syllable word or two-syllable word or one-syllable word in there to give those three beats that just make it feel. I don't even know the logic behind it, but it just makes it feel like the rhythm of the speech is correct to get the outcome that you're after.

Speaker 1 36:40

Now, do I recall correctly that you either are a bass player or were a bass player? I mean, does that musical background flow into your speeches?

Speaker 3 36:49

It could very well, because we all know that bass player is the backbone of the band.

Speaker 1 36:54

Of course.

Speaker 3 37:01

But yeah, I like rhythm and I like my speeches to have a rhythm and that's a thing you'll see with like great speakers, that like I admire Obama as a speaker and he has this where he'll talk fast and then have a huge pause, mainly because people are applauding, but the rhythm to his speech makes the audience sort of come along with him musically and then while they're doing that, they're taking in the words.

Speaker 1 37:39

Yeah, definitely. But also I think writing can have a rhythm and you're obviously a writer, I know that you have a book. So I mean, did the book writing well, the book? When did you launch your book? How long has that been out?

Speaker 3 38:01

It's been out probably two years and it came out out of my head really because it was more to do with the corporate world. I'd seen people do presentations and it was so painful to sit through 90% of them. I think corporate presentations maybe 5% are great, maybe 10% 15% are good. There's more than 50% of them are rubbish and the the most difficult part is staying awake through them. And this is so my book is called, now that I have your attention, and I talk about how we can capture the attention of an audience, not in any gimmicky way, but how to use emotion, how to use laughter, how to use and use contrast.

Speaker 3 38:57

I tell a story where it's. I tell a funny story and then go to the serious subject. And the subject is all the more serious because it's followed the humour and the book is like I don't know 20-odd chapters, but they're only small chapters. It's not a huge book and it's chapter by chapter, like there's one on editing, one on making people laugh at the start of a speech.

Speaker 3 39:28

I call that purging, where people are in the audience, their minds are full of the day's problems and you want to put something in their mind, but their mind is full. So for you to put your thing in their mind, you've got to take all those other worries out. The best way to do that is give them a good belly laugh. They have a laugh at the start. All those worries disappear. They end up with a vacuum in their minds and your message could be inserted Right. But that's just the sort of things that's in this book. It's just my thoughts on how to really engage with an audience. And it's not about. It doesn't tell you how to hold your hands or how to move your face or how to walk around the stage. It tells you about having fun. That is contagious and the audience themselves will enjoy the speech as much as the person up there will enjoy the speech as much as the person up there. The person, the audience, can't enjoy what you're saying if you're not enjoying it.

Speaker 1 40:35

Yeah, it's painful actually to watch someone that's not enjoying themselves. You know if they're nervous or not sure about what they're going to say. That's when it becomes even more sort of like, where are they going with this? You know, like, and you're willing for them just to not stall halfway through. So, yeah, and so did your Toastmasters experience guide, that book or other working experience that you had, like what drove the decision to create the book? Beyond seeing bad presentations, you know, was it speaking or watching speeches?

Speaker 3 41:12

Yeah, it was watching speeches more than anything and things that I'd learned through osmosis more than anything watching great speakers and realising why they are considered great speakers. There's a speaker called Ken Robinson, sir Ken Robinson, who passed away a couple of years ago, unfortunately, but he was an educator and he had this way of speaking like he was having a chat to the audience and he'd have little dad jokes and after each dad joke then he'd hit you with a fact and boom, and he was wonderful and relaxed. And that's what I enjoy listening to a speaker who's enjoying delivering the message. The audience is enjoying it, everyone wins.

Speaker 1 42:05

And I guess along those lines. I understand you've recently started speaking on cruise ships and do you get the opportunity to speak about topics that you want to speak about? Yeah, tell me about that experience, because that sounds like a wonderful way to spend some time that's.

Speaker 3 42:23

That's one of our club mates, graham cairns, yes, has been doing this for quite a while and he mentioned it to me and I thought, oh, I might give that a crack.

Speaker 3 42:31

So I applied to speak on cruises and I had one in april that went from brisbaneiti Honolulu and then they flew us home from Honolulu and I had to speak seven times to 47-45 minute presentations and they asked me to speak on things to do with the Pacific. So I had nothing prepared, so I started getting information together. I did Captain Cook, I did Mutiny on the Bounty, the Contiki expedition, I did one on how Hawaii became the 50th state of America, and I really worked hard studying and I got the 45 minutes. But what I did was I, at the start of each presentation, I gave one of my five to seven minute Taskmaster speeches, either a humorous one or a couple of my international ones, and what that did was I'd get up and they'd see someone speak for seven minutes without looking at a note and entertaining the audience and having it just right.

Speaker 3 43:47

Yeah, and that sort of blew their minds a bit, and then they were more willing to listen to the rest of the stuff which I aimed. Of course it's history and it can be bland, but I just spiced it up with humour whenever I could and the feedback was such that I got home on the Saturday night. On Monday I got an email from the agent saying the feedback was wonderful. Here's a list of cruises. Next one when do?

Speaker 3 44:21

you want to go next time. So in retirement, this is a wonderful opportunity to, like my wife and I can travel for free, with me speaking, and it's an opportunity that a lot of tourist masters should have a look at, because if you can get a niche subject that interests the public, the general public, because the variety of people on there is fairly wide in age range if you can get something that can entertain them there was, I've got to tell you, there was a woman on that cruise and one of her subjects was the history of buttons if you do, it get something more interesting than the history of 45 minutes on that.

Speaker 1 45:13

Oh wow, were there many people in that that theater when she did that talk no, there weren't.

Speaker 3 45:17

There weren't. And I and I was following her and she had about 12 people and I thought, oh my goodness, I'm going to have 12 people watching me by the time. There's a 15-minute gap between by the time the place filled up, because everyone wanted to hear about Captain Cook.

Speaker 1 45:32

Yeah, right, oh wow, Wow. Buttons is a stretch, but you know, to be fair, she got a cruise out of it.

Speaker 3 45:40

Very good, yeah, yeah, good diet, yeah, I mean there's obviously a demand for that somewhere.

Speaker 1 45:45

I mean, who knew?

Speaker 3 45:48

There are opportunities outside Toastmasters, and that's what Toastmasters is about. Someone said I don't know if it was Thomas Clark said to me no one became a Toastmaster to become a great Toastmaster. You become a Toastmaster so that you can perform in the world. Yeah, and I think of Toastmasters as I'm showing my age a bit here, but they used to do a thing for sewing, where they have a sampler, where they do a bit of cross stitch, a bit of embroidery, a bit of this, a bit of that. That's what Toastmaster is practising those little pieces of skill, but the real art is going out and doing, you know, a big picture or something like that. This is the practice time and there's no safer place to practice than Toastmasters.

Speaker 1 46:44

Yeah, absolutely, and so I guess along those lines, what's your new Toastmasters year? Looking like You've hit some huge milestones, you're saying you're not going to compete this year. What's next for you in Toastmasters?

Speaker 3 47:02

Let me tell you about the not competing thing as well. Every now and then this little idea comes to my head well, maybe you can just do it one more time. No, colin, you've said you're stopping, so stop, and I am stopped. I'm cutting that ribbon altogether. It doesn't mean that I won't be going to conventions and not conventions what are those other things called Contests? No, I'll be going to the contests and supporting people and watching people and maybe even hosting something. But as far as competing goes, I I'll help people who who want a hand, you know, to have a look at their speech and that. But but again, I don't want to colonize someone else's speech, that people have got to keep their own individual stamp on their speech and not let somebody else come in and say, oh, that this, this would be better, this would be better, it's your speech. Yeah.

Speaker 3 48:03

And use your club mates, use those people around you just to let you know if you're doing something a little bit wrong. That's how I've improved over the years by and you learn to know who to listen to. Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 48:19

And so again, what does this coming year look like for you? For me, I don't know.

Speaker 3 48:25

To tell you the truth, I'll be like taking a back seat. I've worked hard over this last six months and I'm just having a bit of a break. I'll just sit back, watch it all go by. But the contests I'll just say this the contests are a part of Toastmasters. They're by no means the most important part. The most important part is the people who are struggling to communicate coming along, getting inside the supportive bubble and learning to stand on their feet, learning to speak, learning to connect with people. That's the wonderful part of Toastmasters. It's the safety net where we can all go. We'll all make mistakes, but the safety net of Toastmasters is there. No one there is judging you unless you're in a contest. There's only support and that's the key to Toastmasters altogether. The contest interesting. They're a novelty, they're a sideshow. But the real deal is the week-to-week, fortnight-to-fortnight meetings where people are practising their skills and improving that 1%, 1%, until they get where they want to be.

Speaker 1 49:57

Yeah, the consistency factor is, I think, one of the strengths of the entire program. Just that every two weeks or every couple of weeks, couple of hours, it's not a lot of outlay of time, unless you start to get into the realms of competitions and do the kinds of practice that you do. But yeah, just for members who are a couple of times a month meeting away and preparing a speech every couple of months, it's not a lot of outlay of time. But the benefits are just so massive. I mean, if you look back 10 years ago to when you started Toastmasters, can you fathom sort of looking back at the journey that you've had and the way it would have panned out?

Speaker 3 50:40

Well, I know the difference because just before I joined Toastmasters I emceed a wedding where I thought I was pretty good. And then I watched the video and it was shocking. I was leaning all over the lectern. I was still fairly funny, but it was so unprofessional, so slapdash and so cringeworthy. But if you get me to host a wedding now, it'll be much, much better.

Speaker 3 51:16

I feel I'm more confident. I don't'm more confident, I don't feel nerves anymore. There are people who say you always feel nerves, I don't. Because, even if it's an impromptu thing, like it's a Q&A, because I've learned, and I learned this through Ken Robinson. He said that the Dalai Lama was once at this very important conference and someone asked him a question, a deep question, and he sat there and he didn't speak for a minute and then he said and everyone's waiting for the big announcement. He said I don't know. Now, if he can say I don't know, I can say I don't know Absolutely. That's the good thing about Q&A If you don't know, say you don't know, Say I'll find out. If you like, I'll do my best to find out. No one expects everyone everyone, sorry.

Speaker 1 52:23

No one expects anyone to know everything exactly, and there's nothing worse than watching someone try to fumble through an answer that they clearly don't know. The answer to that is far worse than hearing. I'll get back to you. I don't know far better, to be honest, just on. You're talking about nerves just now. What did it feel like when you actually we, they called your name, that you walked out onto the stage ready to give you a speech in Anaheim?

Speaker 3 52:48

what was the actual sensation as you, the lights were on and you started to talk um, in the back of my head it's's probably a negative thought actually, because I'm just saying, thinking to myself don't stuff this up, guys, because here's a little story. It wasn't this speech, it was my other speech, helen Back, five, six years ago. I was at area level with it. I spoke for about a minute and a half two minutes and then I jumped a whole minute in the speech and I thought something's not right here and I got to the end and I referred back to that missing minute and the audience are thinking what the hell is he talking about? But that was hard to get through. I finished second in that competition yeah then.

Speaker 3 53:40

But it's going through things like that that make you think, make you say to yourselves I didn't know that speech well enough or I let myself be distracted by something else. You've got to be in the moment, you've got to be delivering this message to the audience. And Katrina Roberts yes, you know, katrina, I do. Yes, yeah, just before I went, she did a little session with me and she said when you're speaking to an audience, you're only speaking to one person at a time and it's the person you're making eye contact with. And I hadn't thought of it like that before, but I just try to.

Speaker 3 54:29

When I came out in Anaheim, I just said don't do you know, don't mess it up, just deliver this as best you can. And that's what I did. That's what I did, and I wasn't nervous. I wasn't any more nervous at that than I was at District. There was a much bigger audience. There were 400-odd people there, and the number of people to me doesn't bother me, the more the merrier. Tell you the truth. Um, I remember years ago I did some stand-up, um, open mic stand-up around brisbane, and I was at stone's corner hotel. Six people in the audience, um, and I got up just after a fight had broken out and they'd been put back in their seats and no one was going to laugh, and that was horrific, but I got through it. But it's things like that that make you think, well, it can't get any worse than this. And then you think, just go and have a good time and just do the best you can.

Speaker 1 55:42

Yeah, absolutely. And what would you say to anyone out there who may not yet be in Toastmasters and who might be thinking about it and a bit nervous about doing their first meeting or even walking into a meeting room? What would you say to them?

Speaker 3 56:01

It's hard to put into words. Someone like myself. I wish I'd gone there 30 years earlier, because it has changed my life. You don't have to go there with any skills, you walk in the door and it doesn't matter what experience you've got, and we have had people who are have been stutterers, who have come to Toastmasters and persevered and learned to find a way to get through and in the end, become engaging speakers. There was a young man that I mentored at Redlands, adrian, and he had Asperger's and he came to the first meeting and he couldn't keep his attention on the speaker was fiddling around. And then the second meeting, or when he joined, he had to do his icebreaker and he sent me the icebreaker, typed out. It was a wonderful speech, beautifully structured, some humour in there and I thought this is lovely. Then he got up there and he did a different speech altogether and he came back and I said what happened there? He said, oh, I decided to ad lib.

Speaker 1 57:21

I don't know why I ad lib.

Speaker 3 57:23

Who said to ad lib. But he went from that person to a person who could stand up. He won contests, international contests in his club and competed at area and he became a speaker who could get up there and hold an audience's attention. Now, if he can do it, yeah, the rest of us are gonna. No, I'm not saying anyone's going to find it easy, because it takes courage to walk through the door to start with. But if you go there with the right attitude that these people are here not to criticise you, not to harm you in any way, but to help you to get where you want to get and some people might want to win the world championship, public speaking. Some might just want to be able to speak at a wedding or just even speak up at work, even in a sit-down situation. People have different targets, different goals, but all those goals can be met in some form by attending a Toastmasters meeting.

Speaker 1 58:40

Yeah, I agree, it really literally does meet everyone where they're at. Regardless of where they're at, because, depending which clubs you go to, or the mentors that are assigned to you, or even just the people along the way that give you feedback, you know, you don't know who's listening to the speeches, you don't know who's in some of those audiences and what their background is and to what degree they might be willing to help you. And it's amazing, you know, it's just. I found sort of doing this podcast, just hearing it. Well, firstly, the people who've volunteered to their time to come on the show, but just hearing the stories and the fact that people are willing to help out and, yeah, it's so hard to find that in other organisations I think it's quite unique.

Speaker 3 59:31

Yeah, it's a wonderful, wonderful organisation to be part of and I can't see myself ever leaving it. I'll die in this organisation, yeah, but here's a message that I'd like to give to current Toastmasters who are trying to recruit people to come into their clubs Now the main reason people say right.

Speaker 3 1:00:00

We want to have 20-odd members because if there's 20-odd members in the room, the room's more energetic. The meetings are more energetic. If there's 20-odd in the rooms, we get these points from Toastmasters that can get you awards. The most important reason to get new members into a club is so that they can experience what you have experienced. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:00:31

The reason we want to get more people is because we can help more people. The more people we get in, the more people who will be less anxious when they have to get up and speak somewhere. They'll be able to progress in their careers. It's a big, big part of career progression, the ability to get up and speak, because that gets you noticed, and this is why we need more people in the organisation. Not for any numbers thing, but the more people we get in means the more people are being helped.

Speaker 1 1:01:06

Yeah, absolutely, and I think the younger people start the better, and it's been. You know the fact that you were saying you wished you'd started 30 years earlier. I mean, I actually started Toastmasters when I left or during high school it's through a speech craft contest and then fairly soon out of uni. But I didn't keep up with it consistently and you know, life happened along the way, but it's been part of my life. Every decade, you know, I've woven in and out of the organization and I'm at the point now where I can't imagine it not being a part of my life. Like I'm not going to leave the organization again now. I'm pretty committed, but I wish I'd been consistent for the last 30 years when I was first introduced to Toastmasters. So, but the best time to start is now right absolutely.

Speaker 3 1:01:53

You know, there's an old saying about the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The next best time is now. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 1:02:01

The other day I got a message from a doctor in Perth who had heard my ABC radio interview six weeks ago and he was in his 80s. He is in his 80s and he'd been a Toastmaster years ago and he said I'd forgotten how much I enjoyed Toastmaster and how much it helped me. So I'm going back. Oh good, next week I'm going to find a club to join and that makes me feel good because 80 years old.

Speaker 3 1:02:37

There's nothing to stop you like. In 10 years, I've gone from some blithering idiot who walked into a hall to being on that world stage. Yeah, and, and it's I don't know, it's, it's. Whatever you want it to be, toastmasters, it will get you where you want to go.

Speaker 1 1:02:57

Yeah, I agree, and there's so many ways and, as you say, whether it's a contest path or the leadership path, or, you know, whether it's taking you out to cruise ships or authoring books or professional speaking, as many Toastmasters get into, it's really only limited by your imagination, because it's got, I think, the foundation to help, as you say, get to wherever you want to go, and that might not be obvious. The second you walk in the door and you're just worried about getting up and talking. You know, speaking your name without dying of embarrassment. So that's the first step. Yeah, and Colin, so is there anything else that you'd like to share before we wrap up? You shared so many gems, but, yeah, any final thoughts?

Speaker 3 1:03:45

Well this is a personal thought from someone who's just done this amazing journey that the sort of love and support of the people around me has been totally, totally amazing. My clubmates have been the most supportive bunch of people that you could come across, and one day I hope to do exactly the same for some of them do exactly the same for some of them.

Speaker 1 1:04:23

Well, look, I really appreciate you sharing your story with us and I absolutely know that you've touched many thousands of lives and with the powerful messages in your speeches, and I'm sure you'll continue to deliver your brand of sunshine to the world. So all the best for this coming year to you, Colin.

Speaker 3 1:04:37

Thank you, Mel. It's been an absolute pleasure to have a chat.

Speaker 1 1:04:40

Thanks, so much, thank you.