Speaker 1 0:00

yeah, so, yeah, it's all good. And yeah, look, if, if, if you say something or you find yourself going down a path that you think, uh, what am I doing? Just just stop and we'll start it again. And likewise, too, like I'll sometimes go down the line of questioning, I'm like, no, I'm just gonna start that again.

Speaker 2 0:20

So yeah, yeah, and it's audio only right because I haven't.

Speaker 1 0:23

Yeah, yeah yeah, no, no, definitely audio only. Yes, yes, um, yeah, a lot more, a lot more leeway with that. So we're recording awesome, all right. Well, let me uh, let me uh find my introduction here, okay, all righty, and yeah, recording, okay. So I'll count us in on three, two, one. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 57 of the Talkative Toastmaster podcast this week. It's my pleasure to welcome Jayanti Mendy to the show. Hang on, let me start again. Is that how I pronounce your name?

Speaker 2 1:04

that's perfectly fine, okay, all right.

Speaker 1 1:05

All right, I'll do that. I thought so, I just yeah, I would rather check now. All right, so counting in again three, two, one. Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 57 of the talkative toastmaster podcast this week. It's my pleasure to welcome jayanti mendy to the show. Jayanti is currently a member of the Brisbane Leaders Toastmasters Club, which is one of the clubs in our Area 26. She's worked through the presentation mastery path and is currently working through the motivational strategies path. She's also appeared on the TEDx stage and I can't wait to hear more about that process and that experience. Jayanti, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 1:46

Thanks.

Speaker 1 1:46

Melanie Glad to be here. Excellent. Now let's start right at the beginning, and can you tell me how long you've been in Toastmasters and what drove that decision to join so?

Speaker 2 1:59

I joined in early 2019. It was end of year 2018. So six years ago, where I decided that I wanted to learn more about science communication I was a PhD student at the time and I thought it's really important that not only you work on your science, but also learn how to communicate the science and the research you're doing so it can be reachable for general public. So that was one of my main motivations. I did have this big dream of also being on the TED platform. Oh good, definitely, but it was.

Speaker 1 2:38

It was a very vague dream at the time, but, of course, we'll talk about it in this episode further excellent, and so you're now part of the Brisbane Leaders uh club, which meets at the Mount Gravatt library now the Garden City library on Friday nights. How do you find meeting on a Friday night, because I've not come across across a club previously that meets on Fridays, how? How do you find that?

Speaker 2 3:04

I love it. Actually, this is one of the motivations for me to stay in this club, because I've moved through a few different clubs. So this is the third Toastmasters club in Brisbane. The other two the first one that I joined, like I said, in 2019 was the Alpha Endeavour Club, because I live in Kelvin Grove and Red Hills, so it was very convenient for me to be in that area. And then afterwards I met my partner, got married and we used to live in Nanda, so I used to be at the Clayfield Club for a while and then after that, we've now bought a house in Springfield Lakes, so it's quite far from the city out in the suburbs and there's no clubs here. It's very long and Friday works perfectly for me because even if I come home late, I can just sleep in yeah, I love the aspect of socializing at Toastmasters on a Friday.

Speaker 2 3:58

It's kind of like going to a party, but yes yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 1 4:06

When I first heard that Toastmasters met on a Friday, my first thought was like oh, oh, you know, end of the week is if you're going to feel like it. But having been to a few of those meetings at Brisbane Leaders which is a great club it's. It's one of the definitely one of the strongest clubs in our area. You know, it's great, great bunch of people. Yeah, I can absolutely see why you would want to be doing that on a Friday night. It's a nice start to the weekend, as they say. Yeah, and what do you most about other than, I guess, the people aspect, which we've just touched on? But what do you most enjoy about being a member of Toastmasters?

Speaker 2 4:42

Well, I am generally an extrovert, so it helps channel my extrovert energy. It also improves on my listening and my communication. I get to meet like-minded people like yourself also, so that's a great motivation for me to channel that energy.

Speaker 1 5:04

Yeah, definitely, and you mentioned you joined Toastmasters originally to better communicate. I guess the scientific you know topics and things that that you're studying and and working in, and how's that been for you has. How has Toastmasters helped with that process for you?

Speaker 2 5:27

It's been really, really helpful. When you're doing a PhD, or when I was doing my PhD, people often ask you this question what's your PhD about?

Speaker 2 5:38

And you cannot answer saying it's about polydopamine coatings helping in regeneration and dental implant issues with fibroblast regeneration no, you can't so, um, it helps in your impromptu speaking skills in in your regular conversations with people talking about your research and really simplifying it, or everyone your family members, your friends, not just people in your specific research areas. Having that ability to translate and simplify aspects of science, that's been a big part yeah impromptu communication.

Speaker 2 6:21

I find that I am a person who is very anxious, so it helps when I love doing prepared speeches. I will carve out the time to do prepared speeches, but if you put me on the spot, that's my weakness and I get to practice a lot of that and the more you do it, the better you get at it yeah, definitely, and have you used Toastmasters as a place to practice a lot of those scientific types of speeches?

Speaker 1 6:50

Are you using the opportunity to do that?

Speaker 2 6:55

Well, initially that's what I was doing and I did share some of my microscopy images and things like that when I was at the Alpha Endeavor Club. But I realized that Toastmasters gave me options of speaking about many other things that I also deeply cared about mental health, gender equality, feminism, those kind of topics. I really started expanding into more diverse topics as I went through my Toastmasters journey. So I started with a motivation, but I guess on the way I also learned about so many different things.

Speaker 1 7:31

Yeah, it's an amazing platform for that, and I think I don't know about you, but I find the Pathways program and having speeches with objectives it's like all right, what topic do I want to speak about? That's going to lend itself to meeting that speech objective. And, yeah, you end up coming up with some weird and wonderful topics that you might not otherwise get the chance to do. Right, you're not going to be talking about that stuff at work or in your studies. So what's one of the most memorable speeches? You would say that that you've you've done one of the most memorable speeches. You would say that you've done one of the most maybe fun speeches that you've done.

Speaker 2 8:09

I would say it was the one that I used first time when I was competing. I was a new Toastmasters member, I had no idea about contests and things like that, and I just did a speech at the Alpha alpha endeavor club and someone um said this would be a great speech for an international contest. And I said, well, what's an international contest? Um, and I remember that I was um one speech away from being qualified for the international speech contest and I just dived into the contest straight away without ever not without ever knowing what contests were. And, yeah, they went through.

Speaker 2 8:52

Um, so I think it was beginner's luck for me that I then went up to the area contest and then, after the area, I went um up to the district. Yeah, yeah, so, uh, beginner's, but it was a speech about what feminism means to me, okay, about gender equality, and I think that's a speech that was very close to my heart and it got me noticed in the Toastmaster circles as well. Some people actually remember me saying you were the one who did that speech. You know people, really those kind of things stick sometimes. It's just something that you really care about.

Speaker 1 9:36

Yes.

Speaker 2 9:37

So that would be one of the speeches that I think is very close to my heart.

Speaker 1 9:41

Yeah, okay, and how did you find that competition process? I sometimes think it's easier if you know nothing about it. There's no expectations. I'm like I'm just going to give a speech, see how it goes. But yeah, how did you find it when you realized that you're moving up, you know, out of the club and out of the area?

Speaker 2 9:59

I enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would Like. You said the factor was that I did not know much about it and that's why the care factor was quite less. I thought it's my first time competing. I'm just going to have fun with this and speak about things that matter to me or I care about, and at that time I did both the humorous and the international speech to the area contest with both of them. Oh wow, Yep.

Speaker 2 10:29

It was quite stressful doing two prepared speeches on the contest day, but I learned so much, and more than the outcome. I remember at the area contest I was competing in the humorous category and all of the speakers were women in this category and I thought that was so interesting because, well, now there's more female stand-up comedians and things like that. But just thinking about it, it was so empowering for me. I really did not care about the contest. I enjoyed the speeches of my fellow contestants so much. In a moment I actually forgot that I was competing and I was, so I really value that experience a lot. I would highly encourage everyone to compete. It's good to lose also like, yeah, this time I didn't really compete as much, I only competed in two categories and I lost the contest level, which was still really good. Um, then you get to do different roles, like being a timer or being a judge and this. So I would say, really get involved in the contest in some capacities, because there's a lot to learn from it.

Speaker 1 11:48

Yeah, absolutely. And whether you're competing or doing a supporting role, as you say, whether you're timing like you're scrutinising it and you're watching the second by second and are they going to go over time and you learn about, sort of, how close some people really push it to the time limit and either get disqualified or not. Even ballot counting, you know, and how the judging process works and being a judge and really looking at all right, what's the best speech on the day according to these criteria. I agree with you. I didn't compete this year. I couldn't compete this year. And you know a lot of judging and different parts of the supporting aspects and you learn heaps about the contest process and speaking and what makes a great speech and what judges are looking for. Yeah, all righty. And so tell me about this, this TED, uh, this TEDx experience, and you said you had a vague dream at one point about wanting to do it. How did you get from there to actually getting onto the TED stage?

Speaker 2 12:58

that's an excellent question, actually. So it wasn't really a straightforward path. Some people do think that a TEDx is this amazing thing. You are an expert in your field or you have this great idea, and then you get called on to be a TEDx speaker and one day you go on the stage and you stand on this red dot and you deliver this inspiring message and people take away, and then you're etched on the internet forever, which, in some ways, is true, but there's also lots of little nuanced things to it that people are not aware of.

Speaker 2 13:34

Well, for me, like I said, that was a big dream in 2019. And then I think, end of 2019, I I sort of I'd come one year being into Toastmasters, competing, doing all these things, and I reflected. It was one of these moments where it was the end of the year and I was doing some journaling or you know, starting to set an intention for what was going to come for the year, and I thought to myself well, I think I'm actually good at speaking to myself. Well, I think I'm actually good at speaking, so I want to set an intention. And I said, before the age of 35, I want to speak on a TED platform. And at the age of 32 is when I did my TED talk, so oh, wow, very good.

Speaker 2 14:19

I did. I did check that one off the list. It was very much an intentional thing. Well, manifestation is very woo-woo, that's what people say. But the way I see it is that sometimes science has shown this that when you visualize something or you see something with your mind's eye, you actually tend to see or notice more of that in the actual real world. Yeah. So when you really set that intention, sometimes you find ways to just make it happen. You meet the right people and things fall into place for you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 14:57

And for me this was very much the case. So I met with some people who were associated or knew the TEDx organizers. I did have plenty of experience with science communication before that as well. I was doing Toastmasters, obviously, which was a very, very good thing on my application that I've been doing lots of public speaking before I go into this application, that I've been doing lots of public speaking before I go into this, and then I had submitted pictures for this contest, which is called Science in Focus or Research in.

Speaker 2 15:31

Focus. So I had submitted some microscopy images. So people in the QUT communications circuit kind of were aware of my pictures. Yeah, I pitched this idea to one of the ladies saying hey, I think this, I could turn this into a TEDx talk, and she said that's a great idea, you should do it. And I sought validation from the director of my facility, for example. I said do you think this is a good idea? Yeah, you know you write up this content and if, if you don't get selected for a TEDx, um, you know you can use that content for something else. So it there's nothing to lose for me and I decided to submit my application for it and it went through.

Speaker 1 16:19

so oh, wow, let's go very good. And do you have to give a speech synopsis? And yeah, what's that process like?

Speaker 2 16:29

So what happens with the TEDx QUT at least, is that there is a selection process. So you submit an application, say this is vaguely what my idea is about, and then there's an interview round. So it's kind of like a job application.

Speaker 1 16:46

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Speaker 2 16:47

You do the interview and you speak to the organizers. So one of the things that I did because my talk was so visual I collated some of my images together and I showed them. This is what it looks like, and it was very much everyday objects under the microscope, so something that people could relate to as well. Um, I think that was the relatability factor was really important and I think that's what really got me the slot for being the TEDx speaker I was having a look and I'll link to your TEDx talk in the show notes.

Speaker 1 17:21

But I was having a look at it and and so it was called artwork by electrons and I love this part of the description where it says in in in the talk, where it says after a fair few career transitions, jayanti has found love in the art of microscopy microscopy. Currently she's enjoying her romance with the scanning electron microscope, which captures stunning high resolution of pretty much everything from large rocks to tiny bacteria. And I mean, when I first watched it I thought, oh, it's going to be scientific and I love what you did with it. And, as we were sort of talking about earlier, as a photographer, I just think the way that you were able to use the visuals in that talk really brought it to life. It needed visuals, for sure, yeah, so what happened then? You applied and they accepted you. What then? Did you get to practice it? Did you have to practice it elsewhere? What happened?

Speaker 2 18:22

Did you have to practice it elsewhere? What happened? So the process, like I said, is not really this thing where you become an expert in something and you get called on. There's a lot that happens behind the scenes, and that year they had this amazing thing where we would gather together all of the speakers and we would give each other feedback. Again, this is one of the things where my Toastmaster skills are very handy because it's essentially doing evaluations right.

Speaker 2 18:49

One of the things that Toastmasters teaches you with the evaluations is how not to take feedback. Personally, this is something really important to me because I am very self-critical. I'm very emotional as a person to me because I am very self-critical. I'm very emotional as a person. I find that when you put in, remove all those elements and just see it from an evaluator's point of view, you're really switched on with your critical thinking. And that's where it's it's very.

Speaker 2 19:20

It becomes very technical then not personal at all yes, good point and that's how, not only do you, you become a good evaluator, but you also become really good at incorporating feedback. You know what to reject, you know what to take on and improve, and you know that nothing's personal. Yeah, for you to become a better speaker and all for all of us to collectively have this amazing TEDx event where we have really good audience engagement. So it was really like a crash course. I would say a very condensed crash course, so we would have group gatherings where we would practice our speech.

Speaker 2 20:05

There was a lot of one-on-one feedback as well from the audience, and these are people who have never even heard of scanning electron microscopy or electron microscopy.

Speaker 1 20:13

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:14

That's really helpful for me, because a lot of people in the audience will be in the same category.

Speaker 1 20:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess how to simplify that message and it's like what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that? Was that a lot of the feedback about? Like can you explain it to me?

Speaker 2 20:30

like I'm five kind of feedback um, it was a little bit of that.

Speaker 2 20:36

I think the Toastmasters aspect had already helped me with simplifying things yeah yeah, it was also about getting to the crux of the essence of what I really wanted to say. Um and I'm going to digress a little bit on this pathway about um speaking about, you know, imposter feelings or feelings like you know you're not the right person to do this because when, when I was given the opportunity, I was only about seven months into my role as the full-time microscopist I was doing microscopy for a long time, but I hadn't been in the role for a long time and I had to really consciously put those feelings aside and ask myself what is the message that I really want to deliver? I really want to show people is that science is beautiful. Yeah.

Speaker 2 21:25

And it's meaningful, it has to be delivered in the right way because it impacts people's lives and it impacts people's decision-making, whether it's about taking a vaccine, doing that treatment or. People want to make decisions based on evidence and science and for that it's important for them to see the science, to understand the science and engage with it. A lot of people feel isolated from it. It's really about bringing in that connection, and that's the message that I want to deliver, and that's what I really care about.

Speaker 1 22:00

So was it that message and your desire to get that message out to people that was part of what helped you get over your imposter syndrome, and it's like I'm going to do it anyway. This is what I need to say.

Speaker 1 22:13

Absolutely, and it was this feeling of look at these pictures like what I see in the microscope every day is amazing and I really want other people to see that yeah that was the motivating factor for me that drove me to do this yeah, it's, it's very cool and I mean, I would encourage anyone who's listening to go and watch the the talk via the link and, yeah, just just sort of see what's under the microscope. But I think as well, what I loved from a photography perspective was how you just added the colour and, yeah, you've obviously got a creative and artistic view to be able to look at something and go all right, well, here's how it looks, but here's how I can kind of make it look artistic and and even more cool than it than it already is. So, yeah, I mean, do you, do you spend a lot of time doing that?

Speaker 2 23:11

and and playing with images it's a good excuse to procrastinate, and not just me. I did take. I took some images from two other colleagues, one who's specifically from a creative.

Speaker 2 23:30

She's from the faculty of creative arts and did take some of her images and I did have a long discussion with her when I was going to present her images, same as my colleague who had the TEM image of the bone that was. I definitely wanted to have her image because a lot of people in science like me and her. We have this creative mind that needs to be channeled and I think we did such a beautiful job of choosing that color palette and having this philosophical idea that there's a tiny universe within our bodies yeah translated that idea, so I've got not just me, but other people who are also doing this, yeah, to be their voice, and I wanted to speak about what they were doing as well.

Speaker 1 24:22

Yeah, very cool. And how many you talked about the practice episodes and the practice sessions and how many would you say of those that you did before the actual event?

Speaker 2 24:34

I don't know the exact number, but we started off, I think, in June and the actual event was in October, from memory.

Speaker 1 24:43

Yeah 2022.

Speaker 2 24:44

So it was a few months. Yeah.

Speaker 2 24:47

And it was quite intensive. So we'd meet on either campus and then it used to be usually in the late afternoons or evenings. So you finish a day of work and so you do put in quite a bit of time and energy into it, and I think everyone's level is different. Some people were I was very invested because I really wanted to put in my best effort, and I think some people are more natural or they have their content more organized. So it's it's up to person, but there is a bare minimum that you are required to put in.

Speaker 1 25:26

Yeah, okay, and when it came down to actually delivering it on the stage, like you looked really polished. You obviously. You know that's the thing about TED speakers they always sort of they know their content and all of that. But yeah, what, what goes through your mind when you're about to actually deliver it after all that practice?

Speaker 2 25:47

well, it's. It's very interesting. Um and the the TEDx um talk experience is so different from Toastmasters yeah. I'm going to tell you a little secret that only the 200 people who attended the talk that they know and you're going to know in your podcast listeners, is that at the TEDx talk you're actually allowed prompts.

Speaker 1 26:11

Oh, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 26:13

Which is so different to Toastmasters? Right, because you do a Toastmasters contest, you forget something and that's it, yeah. Yeah get something and that's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas, um, in the TEDx you're allowed prompts, you're getting help, and during my talk, I did actually end up needing ended up needing a prompt, and after the talk was was done and, um, it was amazing, people said really nice things, but I actually broke down and started crying after the talk because I felt like, oh my god, I needed this prompt yeah and it.

Speaker 2 26:48

It made me feel, feel like it was not good enough. Um, but ultimately I had to think back and say, well, I've achieved this, this goal, and I've done this job of delivering the message that I wanted to. So it was absolutely. It was very high and low at the same time.

Speaker 1 27:11

Yeah, a roller coaster.

Speaker 2 27:17

And one of the good things I say this to people who are going to be delivering TEDx talks is, if you are nervous about speaking in front of a large audience, because before this I had spoken in front of, say, 70 people, 80 people, I don't know how many people come to the district contest.

Speaker 1 27:37

Yeah, about that.

Speaker 2 27:40

And not as many as the TEDx platform. Other than that, I think I think I have spoken in front of 100 people at my wedding. Listen to me because it's my wedding yeah yeah, it's about 200 people in the audience. When I stood there I couldn't see most of them because in the dark. Yeah. Spot lights on you. So I tell this to people if you're worried, don't worry, because you won't be able to see most of the people. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 28:09

Yeah. Okay. And so you got feedback and all of that. And then how has that helped afterwards? Because I think it seems like there's probably a difference in this is part of a body of your work, it's part of your professional. You know what you do and the profession you're engaged in and it's always going to be something you can point back to and go yeah, I did that and you know. So. What has happened since then and how has doing that talk perhaps you know benefited you?

Speaker 2 28:49

So I'm a very impatient person and I do need some instant gratification sometimes. Yeah. Unfortunately sometimes not get from a TEDx talk. You have to really wait for it and in the long term you see little ripples and I think that's starting to happen for me now. I gave the talk two years ago. Yeah.

Speaker 2 29:16

Still seeing some ripple effects from it. Recently, I submitted an application for an event called science meets parliament um. Next year in february I'm going to be going to canberra to speak to a bunch of politicians and talk to them about microscopy yeah um it, it is definitely. It sits on my cv very well. With a lot of other outreach work that I do with science I do the QUT open days, for example it sits nicely on my CV and hopefully in the long run I will get some more ripple effects out of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 29:56

But I mean, at the very least you ticked off a goal that you had set and you did it sort of well in time of the goal time that you had set yourself. So yeah, well done. Would you consider doing another one?

Speaker 2 30:10

Yes, I think so. Not a lot of people do multiple TEDx talks, but it would not be any time in the near future. I think I would do one much later. Yeah, be any time in the near future? I think I would do one much later.

Speaker 1 30:27

Yeah, but I have a better idea of my next, what my next big idea is going to be yeah, yeah and and if you sort of reflect on that experience and and the rigor and the preparation and all of that, are you then able to bring that experience back into preparing for Toastmasters talks and how has that sort of come back around for you?

Speaker 2 30:47

I would say yes, because it's very different from a Toastmasters platform, so it really helps in understanding different platforms of public speaking.

Speaker 2 31:02

And when you're doing mentoring coaching other people um, it helps being a speaker on different platforms yeah because then you have this broader lens yeah and you've done a few different things, so you can speak to them from that perspective of you know, sometimes at Toastmasters, toastmasters is a great platform for developing your skills and, you know, really applying them to outside of Toastmasters as well. So it shows people that you take those skills, you apply it to different platforms and also vice versa. Yeah. Take those TEDx skills, um, and things that you've learned better about outreach, about other topics that people speak about. Mm.

Speaker 2 31:57

And you learn that taking a prompt is okay. Yes, yeah, you need a prompt yeah yeah, because in Toastmasters everything gets evaluated so much, so, um, you start becoming very conscious and you start, especially if you're competing yeah, yes, you look for that perfection, whereas other platforms are more about really delivering your message.

Speaker 1 32:25

Yes.

Speaker 2 32:26

A TEDx platform is not really it's about public speaking, but it's also about the idea.

Speaker 1 32:33

Yes, yeah, and I guess hey, present and package the idea. Yeah, yeah, I mean. That said, you don't with the TED. You know the TEDx talks or any of the TED talks you don't necessarily like. You don't necessarily hear a lot of ums and ah, the the ted. You know the tedx talks or any of the ted talks you don't necessarily like. You don't necessarily hear a lot of ums and ahs and you know the. The speaking is refined, typically um but yeah, that goes behind it.

Speaker 2 32:56

Yeah, yeah, it's absolutely not you being an incredible speaker since you were born and then get thrown on the red dot.

Speaker 1 33:11

Yeah, yeah, Excellent. What a. What a fantastic experience it. It, um, yeah, to be able to, you know, look back at that goal and like, yep, you did it, and and to see where it will take you, because it does sit out there on on the internet. Um, you also mentioned you do a bit of work for open days at QUT and I've seen some of your other videos on that. Do you like? Do you like, presenting online or do you prefer presenting, you know, on a stage in front of people? Do you have a preference for that?

Speaker 2 33:37

I'm very much a people's person, so I absolutely prefer in-person events, and speaking in front of a large audience live gives me this feeling of rush.

Speaker 1 33:51

Yeah.

Speaker 2 33:51

Yeah, that gets converted into an adrenaline rush. Yeah.

Speaker 1 33:57

Oh good, excellent. Oh well, it's yeah. And do you think you'll be competing in the coming year for Toastmasters? Is that sort of a path that you want to keep going to push yourself in that respect?

Speaker 2 34:11

Absolutely. I think I would love to keep going with the competing. It's such a different thing in your Toastmasters journey as well. The contests really bring out the perfectionist. Yeah, it doesn't exist otherwise. I'm not really perfectionist, but I'm forced to look at the details yes.

Speaker 2 34:35

I'm forced to improve upon things, so it's like you're playing this piece of music great musicians. Sometimes they're working on the same piece of music for many, many years. The way I see with Toastmasters there's people who are taking the same speech and they've really perfected it over a number of years.

Speaker 1 34:55

Yes, yeah, absolutely. In fact, colin Williams, who was our representative in Anaheim at the World Championship of Public Speaking, who's one of my Leading Edge Club buddies, was saying at a workshop the other day that he practiced his two speeches that he took to the World Championships like three, four hundred times and had developed them over a period of 10 years. So you know sort of, yeah, that's the crafting of the speech and yeah, really focusing on the minute detail that you know most people would go, oh, what does that word matter? What does that word matter? But yeah, I think that's one of the nice things about Toastmasters you can really get into the detail and geek out on that with other people who go, yeah.

Speaker 2 35:46

I love that aspect about the contests, you know, because one of the things that I was I learned when I was first competing from Tamsin Terry I don't know if she listened to this podcast. She one of. She was my mentor for the contest when I was competing for the first time and the main thing that I learned was about how you utilize the space and meaningful use of space, but almost in a choreographed way. Yes. You're doing a dance, yeah, but you're doing a speech instead, and it's choreographed like a dance should be.

Speaker 1 36:27

Yeah, the speech instead and it's choreographed like a dance should be. Yeah, that seems to be, because it is one of the judging criteria. You know it's, it's, it is there is an element of use of the space and, and I think it's a balance between literally, as you said, you know, like dancing around and deliberately going to the four corners of the space just just for the sake of it, and doing it in a way that actually helps to punctuate what you're saying, you know. So, yeah, it's, um, that point always seems to come up yes, and I think it's.

Speaker 2 36:55

It's something that you have to consciously think about and do. I would never done if I had not been um on the contest platform where I'm looking at these minute details. So definitely the contests have pushed me to be a better speaker than I've ever thought I could be yeah, yeah, definitely.

Speaker 1 37:16

Um, yeah, I competed at district level in the evaluation contest this year and I still got nervous. And then I think what was more nerve-wracking about that was doing an evaluation contest in front of several hundred Toastmasters who I knew were evaluating me. You know you're under massive scrutiny with you know and it's supportive scrutiny, but you know that that you've got people watching everything you're saying and every movement and are you making recommendations and is it analytical? And I think sometimes that environment can make it more nerve wracking than it would otherwise be giving an evaluation of someone's speech.

Speaker 2 38:00

You're aware of the scrutiny, but I guess that's what challenges us right well done, because I think evaluation contests I mean table topics also yeah, it is so scary, and so is evaluation, because it requires a lot of impromptu thinking and um speaking, you know, um, you got five minutes to make your notes, yeah, so well done, congratulations.

Speaker 1 38:29

Well, thank you. Well, perhaps a challenge for you next contest season is to try those speeches, and I need to sort of try the prepared speeches. I've never really gone above area level with an international humorous speech, above area level with an international humorous speech, so yeah, I need to kind of switch focus and try something and challenge myself in new ways, I think. And in terms of goals for Toastmasters, do you set yourself goals each year? Are you looking to achieve anything, particularly next year?

Speaker 2 39:03

Well, actually I had been stuck on the same pathway level for the longest time ever. Yeah well, friday nights is a big motivation factor, but the other motivation factor was that, um, anil and the people at Brisbane Leaders they are quite um motivated with pathways. Yeah, I really like taking off something. Yes, you know, when you complete the project on pathways and you reach the next level, it's such a good feeling. I love that feeling and I haven't had anything in a while, so I was really hoping that I get the nudge to complete some pathways project. Being at this club, it's been good so far. Anil's pushed me to do a lot of evaluations as well.

Speaker 1 39:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2 39:49

I think I'm doing the things that I dread.

Speaker 1 39:52

Yeah.

Speaker 2 39:52

Which is good for me.

Speaker 1 39:54

Yeah, excellent, excellent. So what is finishing a pathway? Is that sort of your goal, a goal for next year?

Speaker 2 40:01

Just moving along. Moving along, yeah, yeah yeah, it's not small, so moving ahead on the pathways is one of the goals for me definitely.

Speaker 1 40:10

Yes, and it's interesting to see some of the clubs really focus on that and encourage. You know every speech to be a pathways speech, which means that you are building on that educational pathway set out by Toastmasters, versus clubs that don't embrace it so much, and I always just sort of think you know that I think there's a lot of value in I am a big fan of Pathways. I think there's a lot of value in it and it's part of the value that we pay for by being a member.

Speaker 2 40:40

So Absolutely when I joined in 2019, I think that's when they were really starting to get on the pathways program, as opposed to the previous. I can't remember what the name was the previous program that they had before pathways yeah so I was one of the pioneering people in that club where people were switching to pathways, and that was a good learning experience for me, because I was forced to learn about it. Yeah. I did and now being at Brisbane Leaders where they're focused on Pathways, I think that's been really great for me.

Speaker 1 41:19

And what's sort of some of the nuances you would say about Brisbane Leaders. I mean, obviously the Friday night meeting is quite unique, but yeah, what's some of the things you love about that particular club?

Speaker 2 41:32

Yes. So I think, other than the pathways thing, the other thing that really made me want to think about joining this club was they have a roster system for um for speeches, because what happens in certain clubs is that, um, you have very over enthusiastic people who are, who are very keen on developing their speaking and they're really out there, which is great for them. We want to give them the opportunity to speak.

Speaker 2 42:03

But then there's also other people who have joined Toastmasters because they really want to overcome their fear yeah and unless they are nudged to do a speech, they will probably just stay submissive, and then the same people keep doing speeches when the other people don't.

Speaker 2 42:18

Yeah, so having a roster system is um so great, because that really pushes the other people to do um some speeches and get out of their comfort zone yes not bad about this club, and the other thing I like about this club is, um, they really uh put in an effort to acknowledge when somebody's completed a level on the pathways program as well. That, I think, keeps people motivated. So people talk to each other about what pathway they're on, what project they're on, et cetera. So they emphasise on those things, which I think is really great.

Speaker 1 42:50

Yeah, absolutely. And Anil. So a shout-out to Anil Perera, who's the, I think, the founding member of Brisbane Leaders. He was also a member of Mount Gravatt and we use the same rostering spreadsheet that you guys use and I agree, I mean to have the next couple of meetings planned out and names against it and if you know, you've got a speech in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 43:19

We find that people are way more likely to do them. We never, we never have any issues filling speaking slots for four or five speeches each meeting. And yeah, I just find that the clubs who don't do that forward planning really struggle to get people doing speeches, which is why people join Toastmasters. So it's always boggling to my mind. But yeah, anil set up that epic spreadsheet, the rostering spreadsheet, and yeah. So yes, I'm very familiar with that system and very much a proponent of prepared, you know, of forward planning the sessions and giving people notice. I just I think it moves people through, you know, through their speech development and makes things a bit interesting, keeps the roster dynamic and and changed up each meeting.

Speaker 2 44:12

So and every meeting. At the end of the meeting, we do have a couple of minutes of forward planning, where Anil tells the person that you're going to do a speech next time. You're going to do a speech next time. You're going to do this next time yeah, you're going to do a speech next time and you're going to do this next time.

Speaker 2 44:25

Yeah, they can go onto their pathways and see where they're up to, I think, and as the VPE, I find that you don't get as many opportunities to speak and talk about, whereas this way he's being quite intentional with it.

Speaker 1 44:38

Yes.

Speaker 2 44:39

It works really really well. Yeah.

Speaker 1 44:41

Yeah, no, it's definitely a great club. I'm glad we got to meet sort of through through some of those meetings, and this has been one of the the best things about for me getting out of the club and being an area director and going around to the different clubs. It's just, you know, chatting with, with, as you say, like-minded people and, um, yeah, just just hearing people's stories, it's, it's very cool. It's it's we are all so diverse, but the reasons for coming to Toastmasters are normally fairly similar and, yeah, it's, it's very, very cool to to meet like-minded, like-minded people. Now, what would you say to people out out there who aren't yet Toastmasters but are thinking about joining? So, you know, 2025, the New Year's resolution of sorting out, you know, improving their public speaking but they're nervous about going into their first meeting? What would you say to them?

Speaker 2 45:46

people who go to a meeting or so and get really intimidated because of you know either second language or they feel like, oh my god, all of the speakers here are so experienced and so good and I'm not that good no, I don't fit in here. To them I would say that don't think about it like that. Think about it from. If you're going to mess it up, you would 100% rather mess it up at a Toastmasters meeting than a work meeting.

Speaker 1 46:09

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 46:11

It's the safest place to mess up? Yeah, because it's a place where you're coming there to work on something, so you're allowed to mess up as much as you. You um, in fact, mess up. That's. That's great because, um, you get to learn so much from that and people are so encouraging at Toastmasters. It's not really about being critical, um, every time, in fact, when I do an evaluation, I make it a point of first, you know, there's a sandwich technique and those things, obviously. But, yeah, people, often, this is the, this is the evaluation template is that you will tell the people, tell the person, what they did.

Speaker 2 46:56

Well, and you need to continue doing that yeah small things that they could work on slowly. It doesn't have to be from zero to being speaking in front of 200 people straight away yeah, absolutely yeah, it's.

Speaker 1 47:12

How do you make your next speech better?

Speaker 2 47:15

that's it yeah so I would say, just think of it from a perspective of learning and don't be afraid, you're here to learn. Everyone's super supportive.

Speaker 1 47:28

Yeah.

Speaker 2 47:29

And it happens?

Speaker 1 47:32

Absolutely and J&T. Is there anything else you'd like to share about speaking or your Toastmasters journey before we wrap up?

Speaker 2 47:41

Well, I would say that if you have a big dream, go after it. It may take a while to get there, but if the journey is really enriching, you won't really care that you haven't gotten to your destination yet. So don't be impatient like me, and ultimately it will happen for you.

Speaker 1 48:04

Excellent. Well, that's a fantastic message to finish off, especially as we lurch into 2025. Can't wait to see what that brings. It's been a pleasure to speak with you and to hear about your Toastmasters journey and your TEDx speaking experience, so thank you so much for sharing that with us, and I wish you all the best for the coming year.

Speaker 2 48:29

Thank you so much. Happy New Year and happy holidays to all your listeners.

Speaker 1 48:34

Thank you.